The tempting of the Sith hermetica explains her radical philosophy, but it doesn't directly contradict the notion Kreia was consumed by the dark side as she entered the world and then studied ancient practices in the Trayus Academy like Chronicles stated.
The fact he was using nine Jedi (one at a time) to replenish his power after it was depleted via cutscene?
1. She obviously wasn't consumed by the dark side "as she entered the world". She goes to the Trayus Academy, gets presented with Sith hermetica, and gets intrigued. She keeps on reading while the Sith Sorcerers start telling her that the Force needs to be destroyed etc. for the reason she later states at the end of the game. It states that Traya fell under this seductive spell. Unless Malak was presented with this hermetica and met the same Sorcerers who claimed the same thing, it's not a willpower contest at all. Also, didn't he already fall to the dark side by then? And plus, he had Revan (of obviously greater willpower than either him or Traya) to tell him whenever the Sorcerers' claims were BS 🙂
2. He uses one in terms of unavoidable cutscenes. You can destroy the rest before he can siphon from them. And Revan still didn't put Malak on his ass when the latter ran to the first Jedi tank.
1. Where's the contradiction? Kreia goes to Malachor, is consumed by the agony of the world and is drawn to the Trayus Academy. Now corrupted by the dark side, she is intrigued by the philosophy brought forward to her by the Sith Assassins and embraces it. I understand where you are coming from, but there is no direct contradiction and that fact isn't indisputable. It's canon.
1. There is a quote that states Malak drains numerous Jedi. Revan bested Malak once, he retreated and drained a Jedi. Revan defeated him again, and Malak drained another Jedi (thus fitting the req. of multiple Jedi due to the plural usage of Jedi). Revan beat him again and Malak was lost. So, three times. And then nine would be the absolute maximum if he doesn't destroy the pods.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
😐I don't care about gameplay representations of what happened. I care about tangible representations, such as those supported in quotes
No, they didn't. Army =/= a lot of enemies in gameplay.
That's nice. She's stated to be weaker than all, she never defeated NIhilus, as much as waited for him to die. Not that I care about your opinion anyway.
Well, I don't care about quotes, since this thread is soley about Kotor Revan vs Kotor II Exile. And based on the games alone the Exile is more impressive.
Again, I thought this was about the games without other EU sources?
She's never stated to be weaker than any of them (except Nihilus) in the game. Just the opposite, multiple characters in the game hype the Exile to be Revan's equal and opposite.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nihilus was utterly destroying her. She only survived due to her Force wound and Visas Marr weakening Darth Nihilus by severing their bond. It's not a feat.And besting Darth Sion, a powerful Sith with absolutely no combat abilities to boot, is not more impressive than besting Bastila Shan, the most prodigious Jedi of the Order with actual feats to show.
And putting Malak, who has the power of the Star Forge and numerous Jedi to draw upon, on his ass three to nine times is definitely more impressive than besting Kreia, who is just a decent combatant (and now without an arm) with her trademark ability not applicable against the Exile (i.e. Force drain). A simple comparison in willpower between Kreia and Malak will make clear Malak is vastly more powerful. And that shouldn't be a surprise, since Avellone wrote Kotor II with the intention of KotOR Revan being capable of besting both Kreia and the Exile at the same time. But sure, let's ignore that.
Revan took on "hundreds" on Korriban following killing the two headmasters and two terentatek with only the aid of Juhani and Onasi. This vastly outstrips the Malachor feat. And then assuming that him, Ordo, and another companion fought even more Sith on the Star Forge (every Sith on the station), and then Revan soloing Shan (as mentioned prior), the Infinite Army, and then Malak (also mentioned prior), he's ridiculously better than the Exile in everything.
And then if we fast forward only a couple years, Revan is capable of one-shotting Surik. Do the math.
Nihilus is anyone in Kotor I so whatever. If anything it's impressive that she didn't get annihilated.
And what are Bastila's feats aside from losing to Malak and Revan, and beating some random mook Sith? Oh, and let's not forget beating captured by a bunch of hood rats. At least Sion has his immortality.
Malak killed 2 random Jedi on a Dark side nexus, that's literally his only feat aside from besting a Padawan Bastila. Traya wrecked 3 council members with ease. That's a better feat. Defeating her and 3 tk controlled lightsabers is an impressive feat. Malak has no willpower, he was Revan's *****, got uppidiy, then went back to being a ***** when Revan defeated him. Remember that Malak had doubts about looking for the Star Forge, but he did it because Revan made him.
Yes, defeating a Sith army on a DS nexus with help is more impressive than defeating a Sith army on a DS nexus without help. You sure convinced me, man. You're not a biased Revan fan at all.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1. Where's the contradiction? Kreia goes to Malachor, is consumed by the agony of the world and is drawn to the Trayus Academy. Now corrupted by the dark side, she is intrigued by the philosophy brought forward to her by the Sith Assassins and embraces it. I understand where you are coming from, but there is no direct contradiction and that fact isn't indisputable. It's canon.
You said she gets consumed as soon as she comes to the world, which isn't true. She gets consumed once she reads all of the hermetica.
Anyways, the Chronicles claim that she was "haunted by guilt", which would weaken her willpower. But otherwise, I'm in agreement. Does Malak ever get presented with the hermetica/arguments?
1. There is a quote that states Malak drains numerous Jedi. Revan bested Malak once, he retreated and drained a Jedi. Revan defeated him again, and Malak drained another Jedi (thus fitting the req. of multiple Jedi due to the plural usage of Jedi). Revan beat him again and Malak was lost. So, three times. And then nine would be the absolute maximum if he doesn't destroy the pods.
If it's the one in your RT, it just mentions "drained Jedi captives". So that's two, and he's not "put on his ass" either time. He's only put on his ass once he finally loses, lol.
Psy, question before I respond: If I have an army of dozens of men and kill them, and then have an army of hundreds of men and kill them, are they equally impressive because they are both armies, or is one feat greater than the other?
And, Nova, I told you to not respond unless you had an argument. And everything Kreia saw, Malak also saw, so yes.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Psy, question before I respond: If I have an army of dozens of men and kill them, and then have an army of hundreds of men and kill them, are they equally impressive because they are both armies, or is one feat greater than the other?
Is there a quote suggesting that the Star Forge had that many more Sith there?
And the Sith in the Academy would've been at least as good as the ones on the Star Forge.
And, Nova, I told you to not respond unless you had an argument. And everything Kreia saw, Malak also saw, so yes.
I do have an argument. Kreia being haunted by guilt as per the same source that you're basing your own argument on would diminish her willpower. I've agreed with the rest.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Well, I don't care about quotes, since this thread is soley about Kotor Revan vs Kotor II Exile. And based on the games alone the Exile is more impressive.Again, I thought this was about the games without other EU sources?
She's never stated to be weaker than any of them (except Nihilus) in the game. Just the opposite, multiple characters in the game hype the Exile to be Revan's equal and opposite.
For the record, the Exile's stated to have fought a legion of Sith on Malachor, and every SW definition of legion I'm aware of (whether it refers to clone armies or otherwise) refers to a number in the thousands. Not that I'm saying she fought thousands, but at worst, we can say that this is inconclusive. Suggesting that 100's > X is an appeal to ignorance.
Originally posted by SunRazer
For the record, the Exile's stated to have fought a legion of Sith on Malachor, and every SW definition of legion I'm aware of (whether it refers to clone armies or otherwise) refers to a number in the thousands. Not that I'm saying she fought thousands, but at worst, we can say that this is inconclusive. Suggesting that 100's > X is an appeal to ignorance.