Originally posted by Petrus
Yeah, some of the objects Thor handles [before his prime and weakened, btw] can also be described as 'large' or 'giant'. It doesn't really surpass Thor's large object-lifting by much, if at all.
I want proof those "giant objects" can rival ancient, hulking, giant phantom cruisers. Unless there's some unknown type of cruiser that's only 20 meters long, we can assume it's either the cruisers from the TotJ, TOR or Battle of Ruusan timeframe, each of which is sporting ships at least 80 meters or above in length.
This is the best speculative answer given, anything else would just be conjecture.
Originally posted by Petrus
And Yoda visits Moriband AKA Korriban and it's pretty noticeable how he is physically and mentally affected by the dark power that resides there, so it doesn't seem weak at all. Even if it's weak, as Sidious describes, it's still good enough to be considered a nexus and to amp Dooku to a certain point.
You're mixing Disney canon Morriband and EU Legends Korriban. And Yoda's only physically and mentally affected when the Sith spirits attack him, IIRC.
The amp itself would've been miniscule, and this is notwithstanding that the Count still isn't at peak power and is about to gain additional holocrons, including the Dark Holocron(canonically, the most powerful of all) among others, to enhance his power even further.
So his feat on Korriban is more than applicable here.
Originally posted by MythLord
I want proof those "giant objects" can rival ancient, hulking, giant phantom cruisers. Unless there's some unknown type of cruiser that's only 20 meters long, we can assume it's either the cruisers from the TotJ, TOR or Battle of Ruusan timeframe, each of which is sporting ships at least 80 meters or above in length.This is the best speculative answer given, anything else would just be conjecture.
Taken from Nova's RT at CV:
That huge metal chunk is about 20 meters long and pretty massive. Thor lifts it up and throws it away almost casually, while being weakened and not even anywhere near his prime. This should serve as a reference of what a KotFE or end-game Thor could do.
Also a feat accomplished far from his prime and in a weakened state, he destroyed a 2 story building metallic door with little effort.
Again, if he's doing shit like this early in the game and while being weakened, what do you think a KotFE Thor could do with TK?
And this really isn't it. He has quite a few TK feats, either one-shotting Sith, one-shotting multiple opponents, one-shotting big beasts, creating earthquakes and whirlwinds simultaneously, tanking lightsaber slashes, or stunning Sith opponents. In terms of combative ability, he's demonstrated to be a more effective Force user than Dooku imho.
You're mixing Disney canon Morriband and EU Legends Korriban. And Yoda's only physically and mentally affected when the Sith spirits attack him, IIRC.
The amp itself would've been miniscule, and this is notwithstanding that the Count still isn't at peak power and is about to gain additional holocrons, including the Dark Holocron(canonically, the most powerful of all) among others, to enhance his power even further.So his feat on Korriban is more than applicable here.
Well, the problem here is we have several sources saying contradicting statements. On one hand, Bane saying Korriban's power is weak, and Sidious backing that up later and on the other hand, we have Krayt training in Korriban and the Disciples of Ragnos utilizing it as a base. I doubt that Korriban's power increased in a span of 20 or so years, even less so with Palpatine's death. So it's really up there.
Originally posted by Petrus
Taken from Nova's RT at CV:That huge metal chunk is about 20 meters long and pretty massive. Thor lifts it up and throws it away almost casually, while being weakened and not even anywhere near his prime.This should serve as a reference of what a KotFE or end-game Thor could do.
A feat that Dooku's cruiser feat is vastly superior to. Season 3 Savage Opress and K'kruhk have done similar things; the former is canonically far inferior to Dooku as a Force Wielder and could only lift two obelisks while amped with strain, while Dooku could lift a dozen or more casually; the latter got dominated by Quinlan Vos who got dominated by Dooku.
Dooku's feats vastly outstrip that one.
Originally posted by Petrus
Also a feat accomplished far from his prime and in a weakened state, he destroyed a 2 story building metallic door with little effort.Again, if he's doing shit like this early in the game and while being weakened, what do you think a KotFE Thor could do with TK?
Yeah, that feat still isn't "all that". She/he blasted through a large metal door, and damaged it. Kenobi disintegrating the blaster-fire-resistant Durge slightly after AotC, is a better feat, and a considerably more powerful Obi got ragdolled by the Count.
Originally posted by Petrus
And this really isn't it. He has quite a few TK feats, either one-shotting Sith, one-shotting multiple opponents, one-shotting big beasts, creating earthquakes and whirlwinds simultaneously, tanking lightsaber slashes, or stunning Sith opponents. In terms of combative ability, he's demonstrated to be a more effective Force user than Dooku imho.
Dooku damn near one-shotted Kenobi with a "whipcrack of power", which is better than one-shotting fodder Sith.
One-shotting beasts, also, isn't of any relevance. Creating earthquakes and whirlwinds shouldn't be outside of Dooku's capabilities, at all.
And an injured and emotionally hindered Kylo Ren and an exhausted Shaak Ti deflected lightsaber attacks, so that shouldn't be outside of Dooku's capabilities either.
Originally posted by Petrus
Well, the problem here is we have several sources saying contradicting statements. On one hand, Bane saying Korriban's power is weak, and Sidious backing that up later and on the other hand, we have Krayt training in Korriban and the Disciples of Ragnos utilizing it as a base. I doubt that Korriban's power increased in a span of 20 or so years, even less so with Palpatine's death. So it's really up there.
Them using Korriban as the base doesn't speak about power. Korriban is a core world of the Sith, a graveyard for their old masters and presents the legacy of the Sith ancestors. that has nothing to do with power.
Given both Bane and Sidious confirm the ineptness of the Nexus, just having bases on the planet, doesn't change the fact that the nexus is weak.
Originally posted by Nephthys
So basically you lied about Anakin calling them monsterous
You're having trouble with this, I see. In this context, monstrous and hulking are synonyms. Indeed, hulking might be better for Dooku because it specifically denotes a large mass, whereas monstrous could just mean that it looks scary. But thanks for brilliantly pointing out an irrelevant distinction in semantics. 👆
and despite literally just yesterday ragging on Ziggy for estimating the scale of a feat
Not sure what you're talking about, but people make reasonable estimates in real life all the time (.i.e. science, engineering, finance, pretty much everything). In this case, we know that
a) they are cruisers
b) they're hulking by the standards of a cruiser
c) this is Anakin, who is very privy to being around spaceships
If I recall correctly, most cruisers in SW range from 80 to 500 or so meters in length. Seeing as how these are large cruisers, they're probably on the upper end, .i.e. in the hundreds of meters. That's a perfectly logical deduction.
Even if they're only like fifty meters long, that's still more impressive than Barsen'Thor throwing a metal bar, which you've masturbated to in like seven different threads by now.
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So we now know that Dooku has a better environmental-manipulation based telekinetic feat than anything Thor has done. He's certainly got superior accolades, and from powerscaling he's ragdolled Obi Wan, which is above anyone Barsen'Thor has done the same to. Where, exactly, do we give Thor the advantage? The most I can tell is that s/he might be more acquainted with relying purely on the Force for combat given a relative lack of dueling proficiency. That's not enough to overcome Tyranus's advantages in power and mastery.
Originally posted by MythLord
A feat that Dooku's cruiser feat is vastly superior to. Season 3 Savage Opress and K'kruhk have done similar things; the former is canonically far inferior to Dooku as a Force Wielder and could only lift two obelisks while amped with strain, while Dooku could lift a dozen or more casually; the latter got dominated by Quinlan Vos who got dominated by Dooku.Dooku's feats vastly outstrip that one.
This was a Savage Opress that only just started his Sith training, and him pushing the huge ship off the cliff on S5 proves he improved a lot since, just as Thor drastically would, too.
Yeah, that feat still isn't "all that". She/he blasted through a large metal door, and damaged it. Kenobi disintegrating the blaster-fire-resistant Durge slightly after AotC, is a better feat, and a considerably more powerful Obi got ragdolled by the Count.
Yeah, I'm not actually arguing Thor is overall superior to Dooku. Dooku is the superior and more powerful combatant in general, but in regards to Force usage in battles, I put him slightly below Thor. And Kenobi's Durge feat really isn't that impressive. The only thing that happened is Kenobi was swallowed up by Durge, and from the inside he used TK to blow a single opponent away. Not anywhere near Thor's accomplishments.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of Thor's feats [including these two] were accomplished in a weakened state and not anywhere near his prime. You tell me, if early in the game and not at full strength Thor can do impressive TK stuff like that, what do you think a KotFE Thor is capable of?
Dooku damn near one-shotted Kenobi with a "whipcrack of power", which is better than one-shotting fodder Sith.
One-shotting beasts, also, isn't of any relevance. Creating earthquakes and whirlwinds shouldn't be outside of Dooku's capabilities, at all.
And an injured and emotionally hindered Kylo Ren and an exhausted Shaak Ti deflected lightsaber attacks, so that shouldn't be outside of Dooku's capabilities either.
Regardless of who the opponents are, Force waving dozens of soldiers/Sith/beasts simultaneously is an impressive feat for anyone. When Savage does it, it's good. When Pong Krell does it against the 501st, it's good. When Dooku does it against Clones and Anakin, it's good. It's not different here.
Nevertheless, Dooku being capable or not of producing earthquakes with the Force whilst also producing multiple whirlwinds during fights is irrelevant, it's still hella impressive. And Dooku's never done anything even remotely similar to that, so we can't assume he has the ability to do so. Also, Dooku has never directly tanked a saber slash with TK or barriers. As far as we know, he can't.
Them using Korriban as the base doesn't speak about power. Korriban is a core world of the Sith, a graveyard for their old masters and presents the legacy of the Sith ancestors. that has nothing to do with power.Given both Bane and Sidious confirm the ineptness of the Nexus, just having bases on the planet, doesn't change the fact that the nexus is weak.
Aren't the Sith Spirits and entities partially the reason why Korriban is a powerful dark side planet? To be honest, I'm not sure, but if this is true and then considering Ragnos' tomb is there, as well as his spirit and presumably he isn't the only one, Korriban is at the very least good enough to amp someone who's drawing on the power of darkness.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Uh, Dooku's ragdolled Quinlan Vos, who, months later, goes on to ragdoll K'krukh, who goes on to call down 30m ships - with the author apparently later claiming that K'krukh "didn't use a great deal of the Force" - presumably in relation to effort.
And that takes place years after Vos ragdolled him so I don't think it's reverse applicable either way.