Darth Vader vs Dooku (Force only)

Well now when I think about it Vader did imply in ANH he was way stronger than his prequel self. But Dooku was able to vaporize stone and metal in AOTC with his lightning. So who knows.

Vader melted durasteel in 18BBY with a force scream.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dooku's sin is his pride lol.

That doesn't mean he doesn't know how to lie - heck, you said it yourself he was plotting behind Sidious's back, and yet showing deference to his face. How could he train Ventress to overthrow him if he told his holocron to piss off and tried to fight it?

And I'm not saying it would have been smart to fight back; Dooku clearly would have died, that's the point. The point is that despite all that time, distance, and shittons of manpower commanded by Dooku between them... Dooku was choked like a b1tch. Because none of those things would have made a bit of difference. In the flesh or via hologram, Sidious would have stomped him either way.

Circular logic, tbh, since that's what you're trying to prove, lol. He would have, but the holocron scene itself is not conclusive evidence for it.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Well now when I think about it Vader did imply in ANH he was way stronger than his prequel self. But Dooku was able to vaporize stone and metal in AOTC with his lightning. So who knows.

Dooku did no such thing, he blasted some bits off the wall. Which is an Act I Nox tier feat.

I'm going by just the films. EU Vader is above Dooku I agree.

Originally posted by The Merchant
I'm going by just the films.

Why tho?

We see Dookus lightning get redirected and hitting a random stone wall and we see an explosiom follow right after. Either his lightning is powerful enough to be explosive or he vaped that section. Still impressive either way. Idc about faggy Nox.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That doesn't mean he doesn't know how to lie - heck, you said it yourself he was plotting behind Sidious's back, and yet showing deference to his face. How could he train Ventress to overthrow him if he told his holocron to piss off and tried to fight it?

Why would the guy who's willing to throw himself at Yoda pretty casually feel the need to train backup against Sidious?

Spoiler:
Dooku is lying to Sidious's face and showing deference while plotting behind his back because he knows he'd get stomped lol.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Circular logic, tbh, since that's what you're trying to prove, lol. He would have, but the holocron scene itself is not conclusive evidence for it.

Not really, no lol. Dooku's prideful and has balls of steel, seeking out the likes of Talzin and Yoda in combat. He's only afraid of Sidious. Why? Because Sidious is where his pride fails him. He cowers and dissembles and conceals because Sidious would punch his shit in and he knows it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dooku is lying to Sidious's face and showing deference while plotting behind his back because he knows he'd get stomped lol.

That's evidence that he would lose. That's not evidence that Sidious could ragdoll him...

Not really, no lol. Dooku's prideful and has balls of steel, seeking out the likes of Talzin and Yoda in combat. He's only afraid of Sidious. Why? Because Sidious is where his pride fails him. He cowers and dissembles and conceals because Sidious would punch his shit in and he knows it.

This is a separate argument from his getting choked, which is what I was focusing on.

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mmm It does make you wonder why Dooku thought he could take on Yoda yet is terrified of Sidious. Perhaps he never uncovered the true extent of his former master's power?

You think Sidious couldn't ragdoll the shit out of Dooku? That's a pretty cancerous opinion.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's evidence that he would lose. That's not evidence that Sidious could ragdoll him...

This is a separate argument from his getting choked, which is what I was focusing on.

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mmm It does make you wonder why Dooku thought he could take on Yoda yet is terrified of Sidious. Perhaps he never uncovered the true extent of his former master's power?

Dooku's behavior towards Sidious in general is evidence that Sidious could ragdoll him, beyond the fact that Sidious ragdolled him lol.

It's reaffirmed in Dark Disciple, Dooku's outright pathetic when it comes to the Emperor.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
You think Sidious couldn't ragdoll the shit out of Dooku? That's a pretty cancerous opinion.

Nah, I said "Granted I still think Sidious could ragdoll him if he wanted to in a real fight." It's that the specific scence of Sidious choking Dooku isn't enough to believe that.

What are your guys' opinions on Sidious choking Dooku? Was it truly indicative of Sidious's ability to ragdoll anyone he wants? Or was it that Dooku was simply not resisting and lowered his force barriers knowing that it we be considered betrayal by Sidious had he done it?

Well, that's what I was discussing with Tempest, who seems to have backtracked; it can't be demonstrated that Dooku was legitimately helpless rather than just not daring to retaliate.

Nope lol. Much like Caedus with Luke, Dooku was legitimately helpless against Sidious. I was simply saying that if he could have acted in some way to defend himself, he would have, especially in that particular context.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Do we know those cruisers aren't just Jedi star-fighters? 🙄

What would Jedi Star-fighters be doing in an ancient Sith hanger, exactly? 🙄

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's uniquely stupid phrasing on your part.

You've got issues bro. And btw, you're the only one with an issue with what I've said about Vader. Well, you and Quanchi.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Of course Vader's the superior pilot.

So then what the heck is your problem with what I've said?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's about as relevant to "who's more powerful" as cooking prowess or the ability to play Guitar Hero.

Every time I said that about Vader's power I said ARGUABLY

And if you think Soloing a Rebel Fleet isn't a display of Power, then all I've got left to say is:

facepalm

Originally posted by The_Tempest

They're all Sheev's b1tches.

Again, you have got some serious Sheev issues, given I wasn't singling out Palpatine as Vader's inferior in that respect. Why are you not defending Yoda or Mace against my Vader claim? Why only Sheev?

Hmm I wonder why..

Originally posted by MythLord
What would Jedi Star-fighters be doing in an ancient Sith hanger, exactly? 🙄

That's a point.

I don't actually know which people they belong to. Do you have the relevant excerpts?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You've got issues bro. And btw, you're the only one with an issue with what I've said about Vader. Well, you and Quanchi.

So then what the heck is your problem with what I've said?

Every time I said that about Vader's power I said ARGUABLY

And if you think Soloing a Rebel Fleet isn't a display of Power, then all I've got left to say is:

facepalm

Again, you have got some serious Sheev issues, given I wasn't singling out Palpatine as Vader's inferior in that respect. Why are you not defending Yoda or Mace against my Vader claim? Why only Sheev?

Hmm I wonder why..

For the same reason I don't put Han Solo above Yoda and Sheev simply because he's a phenomenal pilot. Because you have to get pretty damn creative with the English language to associate that with "power."

I'm just busting your chops because you've historically struggled with the notion that Sheev would curbstomp most of your favorites. I just like rubbing it in and throwing Sheevism at you.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
For the same reason I don't put Han Solo above Yoda and Sheev simply because he's a phenomenal pilot. Because you have to get pretty damn creative with the English language to associate that with "power."

Using another Quanchi argument?

Firstly I don't think Han Solo would actually be a better pilot than either Yoda or Sheev. He'd do well to be on par with Obi-Wan IMO given the advantages the Force gives.

Secondly given Han Solo doesn't actually use the Force to pilot, I'm not sure what that has to do with Power in the Force.

And Lastly, even if somehow Han Solo can pilot better than Sheev or Yoda, they could easily take him out Via Tk even in a dogfight, given Sidious can force choke Dooku from Lightyears away.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm just busting your chops because you've historically struggled with the notion that Sheev would curbstomp most of your favorites. I just like rubbing it in and throwing Sheevism at you.

No not really. You just think I struggle with that notion in particular because I've always stuck up for Maul, Dooku and Vader. I used to argue for Dooku and Anakin beating Mace Windu. That doesn't mean I'm anti-Mace, just that I was pro-Dooku/Anakin/Vader.