Originally posted by leonidasIf Deathtry used his touted 'universal molecule manip.' as much as some would have us believe, he wouldn't have been stuck in the belly of a friggin space worm for so long:
i really have no clue who could win this, but it would SEEM to me that both are indestructible but one indestructible guy has a lot of extra powers to call upon (sentry) while the other doesn't. i don't think deathtry ever used his molecular control, but supposing her could, wouldn't he be able to just....disintegrate harald? and was harald shown as being able to fly? if not that would make things tough on him. if we disallow deathry's molecular control he'd still have a huge speed edge. strength would be interesting to see.i dunno. stalemate or disintegration? 😕
He isn't atomizing Harald, imo.
Originally posted by Galan007
If Deathtry used his touted 'universal molecule manip.' as much as some would have us believe, he wouldn't have been stuck in the belly of a friggin space worm for so long:
http://i.imgur.com/hJfH0Nj.jpg
*we didn't see him again until six issues later.He isn't atomizing Harald, imo.
I've always seen the "Shai-Hulud" incident to be very weird. It seems at least to me like one of them situations where Remender or any author writes themselves into a corner so what do they choose, a worm that gobbled up Wolverine that was stated to be invulnerable and there you have it. If the worm hasn't been there Sentry would've killed Thor and likely the Apocalypse Twins as well.
It's like when Wasp says of Sentry "When all this is over we will have a big problem on our hands", and then what happens. After Exitar is killed Sentry is flown off into Space never to be seen again even up until now. Because I guess if he hadn't taken off with Exitar he would have tried to kill the mutants on Earth.
If I recall the events in the comic actually go very quick besides from the Planet X years. If I remember is goes through the events of a week or something throughout the whole arc up to Planet X.
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This is a completely separate thing (and into the tinfoil hat area) - I wondered if Sentry's laconic reaction was due to him knowing the events that were going to occur anyway or as befitting his plan like he said to Thor. But like I say I'm not 100% sure with this random theory.
Really doesn't matter *why* the worm subdued Deathtry for so long. The fact of the matter is that it *did* subdue him for so long. If this iteration of Sentry was a fan of whimsically using molecule manip. offensively(as some like to incessantly argue), then the worm would have been casually dealt with via atomization... But instead, he struggled with it off-panel for SIX issues before reappearing.
So yeah, Deathtry isn't atomizing Harald. Doesn't seem like that tactic is even in character for him to *try* and do(and that's IF you believe it would even affect Harald in the first place.)
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
He would have easily killed them. He was about to kill Thor before the great worm. Wasp presents no challenge and the Apocalypse Twins are piecemeal.
There's no guarantee that the Sentry would do any of those things or was capable of that.
Having Thor on the ground or having beaten on him is not the same as having killed him.
And it seems unlikely that he could just turn on the twins who gave him the death seed and kill them. For all we know they have a way of taking it back, or Uriel could've time-dumped him.
Remender didn't write himself into a corner. He's the one who gave the Sentry those feats you feel justify him being superior to the worm. He didn't have to use the worm to stop the Sentry because the Sentry is exactly as strong as Remender wanted in that arc. He could have come up with any million endings for these fights.
Originally posted by krisblaze
There's no guarantee that the Sentry would do any of those things or was capable of that.Having Thor on the ground or having beaten on him is not the same as having killed him.
And it seems unlikely that he could just turn on the twins who gave him the death seed and kill them. For all we know they have a way of taking it back, or Uriel could've time-dumped him.
Remender didn't write himself into a corner. He's the one who gave the Sentry those feats you feel justify him being superior to the worm. He didn't have to use the worm to stop the Sentry because the Sentry is exactly as strong as Remender wanted in that arc. He could have come up with any million endings for these fights.
He was about to kill him after Thor was unconcious. He gave him multiple opportunities to "see the error of his ways". But then his resistance became detrimental so he decided to kill him before he was stopped. You can't deny that he trashed Thor twice and easily showed the ability to defeat him. He never wanted to kill him in either fight until the last minute.
Besides from the fact that Sentry was specifically rebelling against them from the beginning, and you can't just mention the time dump and Uriel or Eimin taking the Death Seed away because you make a statement like that and you don't have evidence for either stance.
Where did I say he was superior to the worm? I'm not talking about him being better than anything. I'm just mentioning how I disagree with this idea that Sentry would be somehow unable to escape from the worm.
It just seems pretty silly to me.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
He was about to kill him after Thor was unconcious. He gave him multiple opportunities to "see the error of his ways". But then his resistance became detrimental so he decided to kill him before he was stopped. You can't deny that he trashed Thor twice and easily showed the ability to defeat him. He never wanted to kill him in either fight until the last minute.
Thor wasn't unconscious, you can see him reacting when the worm attacks the Sentry. Sentry certainly did beat him, but there's no guarantee that he could kill him right after that. Not when Thor can call upon magnitudes of greater power. Or at the very least escape/BFR Sentry as he's done many times before.
That's a bit besides the point though.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Besides from the fact that Sentry was specifically rebelling against them from the beginning, and you can't just mention the time dump and Uriel or Eimin taking the Death Seed away because you make a statement like that and you don't have evidence for either stance.Where did I say he was superior to the worm? I'm not talking about him being better than anything. I'm just mentioning how I disagree with this idea that Sentry would be somehow unable to escape from the worm.
It just seems pretty silly to me.
Seems even more silly that Eimin and Uriel would empower the Sentry so far beyond their control or scope of power.
And time dumping is exactly what Uriel did earlier isn't it? Only reason why he didn't use any of that on Thor was because Eimin had tricked him into thinking he would win the fight.
At any rate my point was that act like the Sentry's scope of power is something that was greatly beyond the control of even Remender and that you were done some great injustice in that arc, which was more generous to the Sentry than just about anything else we've ever read. Further you make it seem like he would've been completely unstoppable of Remender hadn't PIS'd him away using the worm.
It's just not the case. There's no reason to assume all these things simply because he was capable of beating Thor.
Originally posted by Galan007
Really doesn't matter *why* the worm subdued Deathtry for so long. The fact of the matter is that it *did* subdue him for so long. If this iteration of Sentry was a fan of whimsically using molecule manip. offensively(as some like to incessantly argue), then the worm would have been casually dealt with via atomization... But instead, he struggled with it off-panel for SIX issues before reappearing.So yeah, Deathtry isn't atomizing Harald. Doesn't seem like that tactic is even in character for him to *try* and do(IF you believe it would even affect Harald in the first place.)
I think this whole issue is a bit murky because at one point that happens and then they are all transported into Planet X and Kang has Thor with him etc. I don't really think Sentry was stuck for six issues and we couldn't tell either way. I mean when they go back in time it's before the incident occurred. So by that it wouldn't be six issues in my opinion.
No offense, but I think you're digging a bit, tbh.
Either way, if molecule manip. were one of Deathtry's preferred tactics, the 'struggle' between he and the worm wouldn't have lasted for more than a few panels--the worm would have been atomized nigh-instantly... But it wasn't, therefore I really don't think offensive molecule manip. is in character for this particular version of Sentry.
And I'm really not convinced that his molecule manip. would be a surefire tactic anyway. Harald was fortified with some EXTREMELY high-level magics, after all... Magics so powerful that even Strange was awestruck. Dunno. /shrug
It doesn't matter either way, though. Like I said: molecule manip. obviously wasn't in character for Deathtry, from what I could tell.
Originally posted by krisblaze
Thor wasn't unconscious, you can see him reacting when the worm attacks the Sentry. Sentry certainly did beat him, but there's no guarantee that he could kill him right after that. Not when Thor can call upon magnitudes of greater power. Or at the very least escape/BFR Sentry as he's done many times before.That's a bit besides the point though.
Seems even more silly that Eimin and Uriel would empower the Sentry so far beyond their control or scope of power.
And time dumping is exactly what Uriel did earlier isn't it? Only reason why he didn't use any of that on Thor was because Eimin had tricked him into thinking he would win the fight.
At any rate my point was that act like the Sentry's scope of power is something that was greatly beyond the control of even Remender and that you were done some great injustice in that arc, which was more generous to the Sentry than just about anything else we've ever read. Further you make it seem like he would've been completely unstoppable of Remender hadn't PIS'd him away using the worm.
It's just not the case. There's no reason to assume all these things simply because he was capable of beating Thor.
I'm talking about this.
And he truly was unconscious. He only regained consciousness after the worm slammed into the ground and knocked him a few feet away. If the worm hadn't had existed Thor would have been killed. He can't call upon great magnitudes of power (which he doesn't do in every fight anyway) when he is KO'd because obviously he wouldn't be able to while KO'd.
Uriel and Eimin chose the Horsemen on the basis of their relation to the characters as explained by Wolverine. They are also barely above adult age and are quite silly. How were they suppose to know what they were awakening when they resurrected the Sentry? I doubt they had a marvelwikia or HOTMU to look through. They clearly didn't know what they were letting themselves in Thor since they thought they could control all of the Horsemen.
I didn't say he couldn't use it. I guess you are referring to the instance when Uriel countered Scarlet Witch when he dispersed her blasts into "artificial millennia". I agree he could try and do it but whether he would be successful is another matter. Sentry is much faster, powerful that I don't think he would get the chance to try it. Like I say I think he could do it. But not sure if he would actually succeed.
Again I'm not saying Sentry's power is beyond Remender, I never said anything like that. But writers can put themselves into corners with how they write a story and have to think of a way to get rid of the character. Which is like I mentioned with the Exitar incident. And I never said completely unstoppable. I said kill Thor and the Apocalypse Twins which is something he could easily do. And I wasn't "assuming" all of these things on one incident.
Originally posted by Galan007
I think you're digging a bit, tbh.Either way, if molecule manip. were one of Deathtry's preferred tactics, the 'struggle' between he and the worm wouldn't have lasted for more than a few panels--the worm would have been gestured away nigh-instantly... But it wasn't, therefore I really don't think offensive molecule manip. is in character for this particular version of Sentry.
And I'm really not convinced that his molecule manip. would even work in the first place. Harald was fortified with some EXTREMELY high-level magics, after all... Magics so powerful that even Strange was awestruck. Dunno. /shrug
It doesn't matter either way, though. Like I said: molecule manip. obviously wasn't in character for Deathtry.
It's one of them weird things isn't it because he stopped Thor's hammer with either Molecular Manip or Telekinesis but didn't stop the worm. I just myself find the whole scene odd.
Harald was extremely powered by the runes you are right. We saw an example when he tanked Mjolnir like it was nothing which then broke Thor's wrists. Plus like you mentioned about Strange. Someone who has affected beings far above his tier. Jaekellson was crazy powerful.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot👆
It's one of them weird things isn't it because he stopped Thor's hammer with either Molecular Manip or Telekinesis but didn't stop the worm. I just myself find the whole scene odd.Harald was extremely powered by the runes you are right. We saw an example when he tanked Mjolnir like it was nothing which then broke Thor's wrists. Plus like you mentioned about Strange. Someone who has affected beings far above his tier. Jaekellson was crazy powerful.
For what it's worth: a "simple" rune enchantment transformed Jarnbjorn into a bonafide Celestial-slaying piece of weaponry... And Harald's rune magics were about as advanced as they get.
srug
Originally posted by Galan007
👆For what it's worth: "simple" rune magic transformed Jarnbjorn into a bonafide Celestial-slaying piece of weaponry... And Harald's rune magics were about as advanced as they get.
srug
It's made me want to see him appear again now. Wonder if he could just fall back to Earth ala Nul.
Originally posted by Galan007
👆For what it's worth: a "simple" rune enchantment transformed Jarnbjorn into a bonafide Celestial-slaying piece of weaponry... And Harald's rune magics were about as advanced as they get.
srug
As to the thread, I'm actually of the opinion that Void > Death Sentry. Void would destroy Hararld, Death Sentry stalemates him till doomsday.
Originally posted by Galan007
👆For what it's worth: a "simple" rune enchantment transformed Jarnbjorn into a bonafide Celestial-slaying piece of weaponry... And Harald's rune magics were about as advanced as they get.
srug
Alsos omething interesting is that the enchantment was only on the basis of that first small bit of blood being spilled onto it. But thanks to that stupid mage getting himself killed the Rune sucked all of the blood in his body out. So Harald and crew got even more super powered by the enchantment.
That comic was amusing though, for moments like this.
Originally posted by zopzop
The Celestials are running jokes though. Notice no piece of 'rune' magic saved Odin's @$$ from Galactus.As to the thread, I'm actually of the opinion that Void > Death Sentry. Void would destroy Hararld, Death Sentry stalemates him till doomsday.
Just wondered what makes you think this? (just interested to see your opinion).
The twins with their education and preparation under Kang didnt know about the Sentry? Come on...
Remender didnt write himself into a corner simply because he had the worm take out Sentry. The Sentry just wasnt that powerful. Any number of things couldve happened if Wasp didnt interfere.
What is certain, however, is that he wouldnt have killed the twins oe Thor. Eimin empowered him because she knew that he would not lr couls not kill her.
Its absurd to assume that Sentry would somehow turn around and kill the PROCOGNITIANT CHARACTER THAT EMPOWERED HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
