Re: Sentry vs Superman in a Mavel/DC switch
Originally posted by golem370
If these took over for each others who would make the bigger impact?
That is the question. Not whether Superman would beat a completely Voided-out Sentry with full, conscious access to the entirety of his powers. (Superman would have no chance.)
Originally posted by tkitna
So basically, Sentry is the only one that can beat Sentry just like in Marvel?
Pretty much. Yeah. IF he's under a writer who is crediting him with his full powers. Some versions of Sentry are a lot more beatable than others.
A Sentry with full access to his powers is typically well beyond anyone or thing on DC Earth. I suppose that if the Thunderbolt is around, he'd be comparable. But he rarely performs up to his stats, as he is as ridiculously unwieldy in his overpoweredness as Sentry.
Spectre on the right day is also possibly a match, but he too is very inconsistent. (Again, because of his ridiculous potential power levels.)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Nobody.They will convince him to stop himself like characters from the Marvel Universe did.
He will erase the minds of everyone once more and all will be fine.
He only stopped because he chose to be stopped, they weren't able to actually prevent his mental break.
You see the characters in Marvel had a huge advantage those in DC do not have: they were in a comic. They were part of a story specifically written about this, a story which necessitated things like PIS and characters just all around not behaving in the smartest way.
This isn't a comic though, the DCU in this scenario doesn't have the same luxury the other characters did.
IMO the best thing to do would be to have Martian Manhunter perform a sort of telepathic attack. Not exactly a direct one since we've since how well those work, but he can do to Sentry something similar to what happened when Cloc overloaded him and turned him catatonic. That is how they are going to prevent tragedy, not by just coaching him or having a therapy session with him.
Originally posted by Surtur
He only stopped because he chose to be stopped, they weren't able to actually prevent his mental break.You see the characters in Marvel had a huge advantage those in DC do not have: they were in a comic. They were part of a story specifically written about this, a story which necessitated things like PIS and characters just all around not behaving in the smartest way.
This isn't a comic though, the DCU in this scenario doesn't have the same luxury the other characters did.
IMO the best thing to do would be to have Martian Manhunter perform a sort of telepathic attack. Not exactly a direct one since we've since how well those work, but he can do to Sentry something similar to what happened when Cloc overloaded him and turned him catatonic. That is how they are going to prevent tragedy, not by just coaching him or having a therapy session with him.
The only "scenario" posited by the OP is that Superman and Sentry switch universes. So all the comic-book elements like a lack of realism and PIS would still be in effect.
Again, if anyone wants to posit how a fully-powered Sentry would realistically do, the answer is easy: he'd stomp just about everyone. But what's the point of that?
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
The only "scenario" posited by the OP is that Superman and Sentry switch universes. So all the comic-book elements like a lack of realism and PIS would still be in effect.
They've just switched universes..we aren't getting a written story about this. Written stories have characters they depend on to survive for the sake of the plot, characters that need to behave in a certain way for that.
Here there is none of that, just Sentry and Superman swap places. There is no reason PIS would still be in effect.
Again, if anyone wants to posit how a fully-powered Sentry would realistically do, the answer is easy: he'd stomp just about everyone. But what's the point of that?
You say what is the point as if it'd be boring, but how is it any more boring than "Batman tames him because he's Batman"?
Originally posted by Surtur
They've just switched universes..we aren't getting a written story about this. Written stories have characters they depend on to survive for the sake of the plot, characters that need to behave in a certain way for that.Here there is none of that, just Sentry and Superman swap places. There is no reason PIS would still be in effect.
You say what is the point as if it'd be boring, but how is it any more boring than "Batman tames him because he's Batman".
I rate all fights as if they were happening in a comic story. You have to factor in typical degrees of PIS and other comic conventions. I've never been a fan of arguing for fully realistic "bloodlusted" fights based on power sets. Characters were never created with that in mind, and as a result, we rarely have enough information to properly argue such fights anyways.
Take Superman vs. the Silver Surfer. Realistically, Surfer only needs a second to completely own Superman a million different ways. On the other hand, does Surfer even get that second, realistically? It's logical to impute that Surfer has true super speed, yet does that go too far--even for realism? We've never really seen him be the Flash before. But "realistically" he should be able to do that--the Power Cosmic can do just about anything, being really only limited in scale and scope but not in versatility. But then again, does that mean that realistically Surfer could be as strong a telepath as Prof. X? These arguments become impossible.
Characters weren't created with forums like this in mind either. They don't ignore CIS here, but I can't see why PIS should be factored in as well.
PIS is what allows Deathstroke to defeat Green Lantern and the Flash. It had nothing to do with the shortcomings of those characters, it was just plain the plot. If Flash and GL were, in character, so ungodly stupid that yes it made sense for them to lose to one such as Deathstroke..then suddenly it wouldn't be PIS.
Or to use Superman and super speed, Superman has a thing against killing..not against ending fights quickly with as minimal damage as possible. It's in character for him not to kill, the other stuff is just retarded plot stuff.
We take personality traits into account, we do not take PIS into account. Why is it you can't acknowledge that difference?
Since you want to mention CBR they had a lovely example of the difference between PIS and CIS: the character Rhino. Rhino is stupid as f*ck. For him to use his powers in a stupid way is IN character for him.
Originally posted by Surtur
Characters weren't created with forums like this in mind either. They don't ignore CIS here, but I can't see why PIS should be factored in as well.PIS is what allows Deathstroke to defeat Green Lantern and the Flash. It had nothing to do with the shortcomings of those characters, it was just plain the plot. If Flash and GL were, in character, so ungodly stupid that yes it made sense for them to lose to one such as Deathstroke..then suddenly it wouldn't be PIS.
Or to use Superman and super speed, Superman has a thing against killing..not against ending fights quickly with as minimal damage as possible. It's in character for him not to kill, the other stuff is just retarded plot stuff.
Just because he beats Surfer. Pretend Deathstroke is Thanos and go from there.
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Originally posted by Surtur
We take personality traits into account, we do not take PIS into account. Why is it you can't acknowledge that difference?Since you want to mention CBR they had a lovely example of the difference between PIS and CIS: the character Rhino. Rhino is stupid as f*ck. For him to use his powers in a stupid way is IN character for him.
Unless it's Gladiator.
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Originally posted by Surtur
Yes and if you remember I argued against Thanos being granted super speed. I never said I agreed with everything CBR did.A character doing something because it's in character for them is not the same thing as doing something just to further the plot along.
I'm not always a big fan of PIS or CIS.
I tend to think of things in terms of comic conventions. And to always try to think of things from the perspective of writers.
The only relevant PIS is when a character clearly performs far differently *than he normally does in the comics* for a specific plot-induced reason. When a character underperforms what he realistically should be achieving given his power set, we just call that "Comics!".
It's unclear to me what exactly you want to argue? Do you want to argue power sets? How would you, with your mind and the Sentry's true power, all operating under real-world physics, do against someone else who had Superman's power, in a similar situation? That is often pretty tough to do--and even when you can do it, where does it get you? But in this case it would be easy. You'd win.
I still find it silly to try to say PIS should be on because that is the culprit when you have Deathstroke beat Flash or Spider-Man defeat Firelord or all that nonsense. PIS is where the "anything can happen in a comic" comes from.
Why would we include such an aspect in anything resembling a debate? It serves no purpose. Are we just telling a story here?
Originally posted by Surtur
I still find it silly to try to say PIS should be on because that is the culprit when you have Deathstroke beat Flash or Spider-Man defeat Firelord or all that nonsense. PIS is where the "anything can happen in a comic" comes from.Why would we include such an aspect in anything resembling a debate? It serves no purpose. Are we just telling a story here?
Just assume these are outliers. They happened. But they don't affect the average portrayal of the character.
Discarding entire feats because you don't like them? Idiotic.