Where do YOU put X2?

Originally posted by MythLord
You do realize there's differing types of MagnaGuards, yes? Because you're essentially generalizing IG 101 as being every single MagnaGuard and if that were the case, Fisto wouldn't have eviscerated two of them, Maul wouldn't have stomped six, and Shaak wouldn't have blitzed 5.

A standard MagnaGuard = a standard Jedi Knight. I have Finn on Jedi Knight level, because he's in the top 1% of an Order of supersoldiers trained from birth, in ways inspired by the training of Jedi and later master melee weapons to combat lightsaber wielding combatants(i.e. Jedi).

Everything points to Finn being on par with your standard Jedi Knight, or above. Especially in-canon where non-Force sensitives fight Force sensitives on a daily basis and don't get absolutely massacred. 👆

They were Grievous Personal Guards :/

Originally posted by MythLord
You do realize there's differing types of MagnaGuards, yes? Because you're essentially generalizing IG 101 as being every single MagnaGuard and if that were the case, Fisto wouldn't have eviscerated two of them, Maul wouldn't have stomped six, and Shaak wouldn't have blitzed 5.

A standard MagnaGuard = a standard Jedi Knight. I have Finn on Jedi Knight level, because he's in the top 1% of an Order of supersoldiers trained from birth, in ways inspired by the training of Jedi and later master melee weapons to combat lightsaber wielding combatants(i.e. Jedi).

Everything points to Finn being on par with your standard Jedi Knight, or above. Especially in-canon where non-Force sensitives fight Force sensitives on a daily basis and don't get absolutely massacred. 👆

And this negates the fact that X2 was taking them out by the handful casually, with little effort, 1-3 at the same time, and I think you fight 8-10 of them, and kill all of them by yourself.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
They were Grievous Personal Guards :/

Grievous' personal guards that are inconsistent due to only some of them being so well trained they can challenge top tiers, but most are on par with Jedi Knights.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
But he doesn't necessarily have feats to put him on that level, nor the hype.

He actually does have the hype. And absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence, logic simply points to Finn being incredibly talented as a melee combatant.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
And this negates the fact that X2 was taking them out by the handful casually, with little effort, 1-3 at the same time, and I think you fight 8-10 of them, and kill all of them by yourself.

With the aid of Windu, who could stomp three standard MagnaGuards with alacrity.

And Kylo's ability to murk Finn, under those circumstances, lead me to believe he's capable of at least taking on two MGs.

Originally posted by MythLord
Grievous' personal guards that are inconsistent due to only some of them being so well trained they can challenge top tiers, but most are on par with Jedi Knights.

He actually does have the hype. And absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence, logic simply points to Finn being incredibly talented as a melee combatant.

With the aid of Windu, who could stomp three standard MagnaGuards with alacrity.

And Kylo's ability to murk Finn, under those circumstances, lead me to believe he's capable of at least taking on two MGs.

Will have to go back and check, but I don't think he even engaged one in combat.

Ok, just went back to take a look, Mace Windu kills 1.

1 single Magnaguard.

You fight 5, and then X2 fights another 2 off-screen. (You see more magnaguards enter the room after Grievous runs off.)

He does this using an Electrostaff, no melee weapons.

Which means he fights them... 3v1, 2v1, and then 2v1.

Oh, and also, Mace Windu praises X2 for his melee combat as well. "Your melee combat defies expectations, X2." - Mace Windu

That's a flipping game mechanic. You don't take those as canon, ayy LMAO. Mace is both skilled and powerful enough to casually dipsatch several MagnaGuards without much strain, in fact he has already in Obsession 5 while focusing on Tyranus.

Windu would probably also praise Kylo's skill, tbh.

Originally posted by MythLord
That's a flipping game mechanic. You don't take those as canon, ayy LMAO. Mace is both skilled and powerful enough to casually dipsatch several MagnaGuards without much strain, in fact he has already in Obsession 5 while focusing on Tyranus.

Windu would probably also praise Kylo's skill, tbh.

Windu would beat Kylo with a single stroke if he was serious.

All you are showing me is that X2 as a clone would take Finn, as well as Kylo Ren.

Don't try to argue game mechanics when there are scripted, canon events that take place.

The Magnaguards won't spawn, and you don't get to fight them till you're right outside Grievous door.

Its scripted, btw, Mace Windu fights Grievous only during that fight, and doesn't deviate from fighting him to help you, at all, and the same thing will happen in every playthrough no matter what you do.

You've provided no evidence for Finn's superiority over a Padawan btw, besides your argument that he was trained to fight like a Jedi, which doesn't automatically mean he fights like a Jedi.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Its not a game mechanic, its what the game goes by, those enemies are dispatched in JUST that area.

Windu would beat Kylo with a single stroke if he was serious.

All you are showing me is that X2 as a clone would take Finn, as well as Kylo Ren.

Don't try to argue game mechanics when there are scripted, canon events that take place.

The Magnaguards won't spawn, and you don't get to fight them till you're right outside Grievous door.

Its scripted, btw, Mace Windu fights Grievous only during that fight, and doesn't deviate from fighting him to help you, at all, and the same thing will happen in every playthrough no matter what you do.

You've provided no evidence for Finn's superiority over a Padawan btw, besides your argument that he was trained to fight like a Jedi, which doesn't automatically mean he fights like a Jedi.

Yeah, that's a game mechanic. It's scripted that he and Mace fought MagnaGuards and Grievous, but that doesn't mean Mace kills one and then you kill 10 😆

So beating Finn means beating Kylo Ren? LOL, that's just ridiculous.

So your argument is:"Finn is trained to fight like a Jedi, but that doesn't mean he fights like a Jedi!" despite the fact that this is exactly what it means? So that means a padawan can take Finn, who's casually stomping Elite supersoldiers trained from birth with rigorous, Jedi-esque training, in-depth historical knowledge on all of the battles during the Clone Wars, and several combat simulations per day?

This isn't even mentioning Finn holding back or being tired in most of his fights with said FO troopers, and how he still stomped one of them in 3 seconds, and two of them in under a minute, then went on to face several Elites and best them quickly.

In a continuity where a standard Mandalorian assassin can give Obi-Wan Kenobi grief, it's hard to believe one of the absolute top supersoldiers of an Order trained from birth, and at one point in ways to combat Jedi, wouldn't beat a padawan, a Knight or a MagnaGuard?

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, that's a game mechanic. It's scripted that he and Mace fought MagnaGuards and Grievous, but that doesn't mean Mace kills one and then you kill 10 😆

So beating Finn means beating Kylo Ren? LOL, that's just ridiculous.

So your argument is:"Finn is trained to fight like a Jedi, but that doesn't mean he fights like a Jedi!" despite the fact that this is exactly what it means? So that means a padawan can take Finn, who's casually stomping Elite supersoldiers trained from birth with rigorous, Jedi-esque training, in-depth historical knowledge on all of the battles during the Clone Wars, and several combat simulations per day?

This isn't even mentioning Finn holding back or being tired in most of his fights with said FO troopers, and how he still stomped one of them in 3 seconds, and two of them in under a minute, then went on to face several Elites and best them quickly.

In a continuity where a standard Mandalorian assassin can give Obi-Wan Kenobi grief, it's hard to believe one of the absolute top supersoldiers of an Order trained from birth, and at one point in ways to combat Jedi, wouldn't beat a padawan, a Knight or a MagnaGuard?

You think Kylo Ren could take Boba Fett or Jango Fett??? Really? You think Finn would last anywhere near that?

Mmkay, what happens is, canonically, you see Mace kill 1 Magnaguard, then you fight the rest.

If Mace doesn't deviate from his fight with Grievous, it means YOU are the one killing the magnaguards. It does not let Mace help you once you get into the room with Grievous. Which means its scripted, what, are you gonna argue Revan pulling Meteors down is a game mechanic, or when he TK's the entire group?

You need to know distinctions between the two.

Yes, Zett Jukassa was doing just fine against a few of them before he got shot down, X2 soloed hundreds of them single-handedly, the stormtroopers are
nothing special, the Royal Guards are all better then them.

Also, the inconsistencies don't override the fact that the Magnaguards are above any stormtrooper.

"Well, you're saying all this about Finn, but X2 was a clone too, right?"

He was a clone of a Force Sensitive Jedi, and all the other clones were of Jango Fett.

X2 also fought off a Jedi Master on his own.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Obi-Wan was beating the shit out of Pre-Viszla, who was the best Mandalorian.

If by beating the shit into him, you mean trading physical exchanges then sure. And he's hardly the best Mandalorian.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You think Kylo Ren could take Boba Fett or Jango Fett??? Really? You think Finn would last anywhere near that?

I believe Kylo would beat them, and Finn can hang with them a bit, yes.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Mmkay, what happens is, canonically, you see Mace kill 1 Magnaguard, then you fight the rest.

If Mace doesn't deviate from his fight with Grievous, it means YOU are the one killing the magnaguards. It does not let Mace help you once you get into the room with Grievous. Which means its scripted, what, are you gonna argue Revan pulling Meteors down is a game mechanic, or when he TK's the entire group?

You need to know distinctions between the two.

So because one video has Mace cutting down a single MagnaGuard during gameplay, that means he automatically cut down a single MagnaGuard? I'm all for scripted parts, but this isn't a scripted part and you have no proof of that other than seeing Mace slice down just one in one instance of gameplay.

In fact, it wouldn't make sense for him to kill one and then leave the rest to X2, he would've either killed none or killed quite a few. Grievous, by himself, also isn't enough to really distract Mace completely and risk him losing a fine Clone and potential Jedi.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yes, Zett Jukassa was doing just fine against a few of them before he got shot down, X2 soloed hundreds of them single-handedly, the stormtroopers are
nothing special, the Royal Guards are all better then them.

Also, the inconsistencies don't override the fact that the Magnaguards are above any stormtrooper.

"Well, you're saying all this about Finn, but X2 was a clone too, right?"

He was a clone of a Force Sensitive Jedi, and all the other clones were of Jango Fett.

X2 also fought off a Jedi Master on his own.

I'll say it again: This isn't your Imperial Stormtrooper or Republic Clone Trooper. This is the First Order Stormtrooper that shits on the former two.

Do you not comprehend there is a difference between fodder trained to shoot down droids, and supersoldiers trained from birth and taught in melee arts with training inspired by the Jedi Order? Is that so far outside your mental capacity?

Your entire argument relies on comparing Imperials and Republic Clones to FO Stormtroopers, which have totally different training and combative capabilities.

And Kylo could fight off and kill a Jedi Maser, probably.

Originally posted by MythLord
If by beating the shit into him, you mean trading physical exchanges then sure. And he's hardly the best Mandalorian.

I believe Kylo would beat them, and Finn can hang with them a bit, yes.

So because one video has Mace cutting down a single MagnaGuard during gameplay, that means he automatically cut down a single MagnaGuard? I'm all for scripted parts, but this isn't a scripted part and you have no proof of that other than seeing Mace slice down just one in one instance of gameplay.

In fact, it wouldn't make sense for him to kill one and then leave the rest to X2, he would've either killed none or killed quite a few. Grievous, by himself, also isn't enough to really distract Mace completely and risk him losing a fine Clone and potential Jedi.

I'll say it again: This isn't your Imperial Stormtrooper or Republic Clone Trooper. This is the First Order Stormtrooper that shits on the former two.

Do you not comprehend there is a difference between fodder trained to shoot down droids, and supersoldiers trained from birth and taught in melee arts with training inspired by the Jedi Order? Is that so far outside your mental capacity?

Your entire argument relies on comparing Imperials and Republic Clones to FO Stormtroopers, which have totally different training and combative capabilities.

And Kylo could fight off and kill a Jedi Maser, probably.

Boba and Jango have superior feats, even in canon, and if we use them in Legends, either one of them stomls, effortlessly.

You overrate these virtuly featless characters like they're better then they were portrayed, they aren't.

You're trying to make Kylo Ren out as someone who can take on Jedi Masters, ans Finn who can take on Magnaguards and Padawans, when that just isn't the case.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Its a cutscene, where Mace kills one single Magnaguard, then you go into the room Grievous is in, and you Mace starts fighting Grievous, while you start fighting the Magnaguards.

So you see Mace killing one in a cutscene, then you see Mace fighting one while you fight another in gameplay:

https://youtu.be/P71kywtisp4?t=451

Grievous is nowhere to be found, here.

When facing Grievous, there's two MagnaGuards to aid him. You fight two of them, while Mace fights Grievous:

https://youtu.be/P71kywtisp4?t=483

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Boba and Jango have superior feats, even in canon, and if we use them in Legends, either one of them stomls, effortlessly.

Kylo? LOL no. Neither one of them stomps, LMFAO.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You overrate these virtuly featless characters like they're better then they were portrayed, they aren't.

Featless? I urge you to reconsider that false statement:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/star-wars-universe/4015-57038/forums/kylo-ren-respect-thread-1756638/

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/star-wars-finn-respect-thread-1756815/

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You're trying to make Kylo Ren out as someone who can take on Jedi Masters, ans Finn who can take on Magnaguards and Padawans, when that just isn't the case.

It is the case, you're just too thick-headed/ignorant/oblivious to see that.

Originally posted by MythLord
So you see Mace killing one in a cutscene, then you see Mace fighting one while you fight another in gameplay:

https://youtu.be/P71kywtisp4?t=451

Grievous is nowhere to be found, here.

When facing Grievous, there's two MagnaGuards to aid him. You fight two of them, while Mace fights Grievous:

https://youtu.be/P71kywtisp4?t=483

Kylo? LOL no. Neither one of them stomps, LMFAO.

Featless? I urge you to reconsider that false statement:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/star-wars-universe/4015-57038/forums/kylo-ren-respect-thread-1756638/

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/star-wars-finn-respect-thread-1756815/

It is the case, you're just too thick-headed/ignorant/oblivious to see that.

Give you that one.

Boba was a legitimate threat to Legends Luke and Kyle Katarn, where Kyle says he barely got away with his life.

A lot of those are accolades, and his showings don't really mirror that.

Kylo got tagged by a stormtrooper, and I did see his respect thread, which, while impressive for a stormtrooper, had nothing that suggest he would even register against Rex, and it said nothing about Jedi-esque training.

Once Rey got serious, she made Ren her *****, and it was her first time ever using a lightsaber, OR the force, in combat.

Just... What even? Everyone in the other thread was saying the same ****ing thing, lol.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Boba was a legitimate threat to Legends Luke and Kyle Katarn, where Kyle says he barely got away with his life.

K, and Boba would beat Finn, and possibly Kylo. Your point?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
A lot of those are accolades, and his showings don't really mirror that.

Canonical statements > taking feats at face-value

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Kylo got tagged by a stormtrooper, and I did see his respect thread, which, while impressive for a stormtrooper, had nothing that suggest he would even register against Rex, and it said nothing about Jedi-esque training.

I forgot to add that, though I didn't edit that RT in ages. And it registers to Rex to the point of surpassing him, lol. 😂

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Once Rey got serious, she made Ren her *****, and it was her first time ever using a lightsaber, OR the force, in combat.

Let's just ignore how Rey was in a One-With-The-Force moment, and Kylo was prior to that, despite holding back and being emotionally/physically crippled, wrecking her.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Just... What even? Everyone in the other thread was saying the same ****ing thing, lol.

I think they'd register logic, by now.

Anyway, Kylo Ren is the most inconsistent dude in the history of SW.

"One of the most powerful combatants in history"

-Gsts beaten by a girl who's never trained in her life-

Girl who never trained in her life? Do you know anything about Rey? She's described as perfecting melee combat through self training on Jakku, LMAO.

Lol @ that quote.

Not that I don't buy it. Can't wait for everyone to ignore it while wanking the same shit from Maul, the B Team etc tho.

Originally posted by MythLord
K, and Boba would beat Finn, and possibly Kylo. Your point?

Canonical statements > taking feats at face-value

I forgot to add that, though I didn't edit that RT in ages. And it registers to Rex to the point of surpassing him, lol. 😂

Let's just ignore how Rey was in a One-With-The-Force moment, and Kylo was prior to that, despite holding back and being emotionally/physically crippled, wrecking her.

I think they'd register logic, by now.

Taking feats at face value, what we see, is definitely above statements.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
It wasn't a one-with-the-force moment and you have no proof of it being so.

Taking feats at face value, what we see, is definitely above statements.

Yes, it was. She was getting wrecked by him before, then closes her eyes, we hear the theme music and she says "The Force" and proceeds to start wrecking, despite prior to that getting wrecked.

The novelisation also notes this, IIRC.

And statements come from the creators/narrators/Gods of the universe. They have far, far more authority than you just watching a movie then proceeding to type a factually incorrect argument on the internet.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yes, it was. She was getting wrecked by him before, then closes her eyes, we hear the theme music and she says "The Force" and proceeds to start wrecking, despite prior to that getting wrecked.

The novelisation also notes this, IIRC.

And statements come from the creators/narrators/Gods of the universe. They have far, far more authority than you just watching a movie then proceeding to type a factually incorrect argument on the internet.

Not that it matters, this is X2 we're talking about.

By the time X2 was already a Jedi, he had mastered Force Jump, took out several Royal
Guards on his own, fought off Magnaguards, 2v1 in single combat.

Oh, and it was said that Magnaguards can move at lightspeed, and know all 7 lightsaber forms.

Finn is a footnote to them.