Where do YOU put X2?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
They were, those were his guards, because they use the same equipment earlier on.

They weren't Palpatine's royal guard.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Thats cool. Anything else? Because as far as I can tell, it still doesn't beat X2's feat of slaughtering over 50 Imperial Stormtroopers in a single battle, along with Vader's personal droid bodyguard, on a dark side nexus, while X2 is a lightsider.

Great, you proved to me that X2 is better than Finn, he's still below Kylo.

Originally posted by MythLord
They weren't Palpatine's royal guard.

Great, you proved to me that X2 is better than Finn, he's still below Kylo.

Kylo isn't taking on 50 stormtroopers and Vader's personal guard.

Pong Krell, with all the advantages, and the element of surprise, wasn't able to take out the group that was sent after him.

If that isn't enough for you, X2 fought off a bunch of Nightsisters on Dathomir, then killed their Leader's pet rancor, while she was riding it, and proceeded to defeat their leader, who was powerful enough for X2 to sense her power from far away.

What you are arguing is ridiculous, Finn isn't worth more then 10-15 Stormtroopers, and he hasn't done anything to suggest he is.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
"No they aren't" = Your argument.

Because they aren't. The Royal Guard stay loyal to Palpatine, and Palpatine only.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Kylo isn't taking on 50 stormtroopers and Vader's personal guard.

Pong Krell, with all the advantages, and the element of surprise, wasn't able to take out the group that was sent after him.

At the same time? Maybe not. One or several at a time? He sure as hell will.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
If that isn't enough for you, X2 fought off a bunch of Nightsisters on Dathomir, then killed their Leader's pet rancor, while she was riding it, and proceeded to defeat their leader, who was powerful enough for X2 to sense her power from far away.

And I doubt that's something outside of Kylo's capabilities, if I'm being frank. A Jedi Knight > a Nightsister, and he's killed dozens of them.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
What you are arguing is ridiculous, Finn isn't worth more then 10-15 Stormtroopers, and he hasn't done anything to suggest he is.

Because he is worth more. Him consistently beating several of Elite Stormtroopers much better than a standard Imperial One, while tired and holding back, in a small amount of time suggests so.

X2 is like those guys like Hero of Umbara.

Originally posted by MythLord
Because they aren't. The Royal Guard stay loyal to Palpatine, and Palpatine only.

At the same time? Maybe not. One or several at a time? He sure as hell will.

And I doubt that's something outside of Kylo's capabilities, if I'm being frank. A Jedi Knight > a Nightsister, and he's killed dozens of them.

Because he is worth more. Him consistently beating several of Elite Stormtroopers much better than a standard Imperial One, while tired and holding back, in a small amount of time suggests so.

No?... Carnor Jax and Kir Kanos fought for this same reason, and the ONLY source we have is the game and its Wookiepedia page, and the Wookiepedia page lists the Emporer's Royal Guard as the ones who fought X2 early in the Galactic Civil War, AND the ones that help X1 in the Battle of Mustafar.

But you don't know that, Pong Krell was put in the same situation, in fact, a more advantageous one, and there weren't nearly as many, although Krell still managed to get captured.

The Nightsisters, along with Ventress, were able to push Dooku, and were fighting just as hard as Ventress was.

Not even mentioning he beat their Matriarch, who was powerful enough that she left a Dark Side aura through-out the area she was in, and just before that, her pet rancor, while she was riding it.

For now, Finn stomping a bunch of his peers, who are also stormtroopers, just isn't good enough.

There's nothing that shows their VAST superiority besides their extensive learning of melee combat. Despite them learning the "Jedi Arts", it can't put them on the level of your average Jedi Knight.

The magnaguards are vastly superior, and I'm surprised you dunno why.

They are faster, more durable, have superior weaponry, and actually have the capabilities to utilize the 7 lightsaber forms of combat. You, being the one who made a respect thread, should know this.

You keep trying to say that stomping Finn while injured is a superior feat to X2 fighting multiple nightsisters by himself, and then fighting their powerful leader in single combat and beating her, just before, killing her pet rancor.

@BazookaMaster, I guess? But Idk, X2 has a definitive identity, and by the end of the game, we know quite a bit about him, we see his entire life story, and his missions are all listed as official missions in Galactic History.

The Royal Guard are loyal to Palpatine yeah, but when he died the 1st time, his remaining Guardsmen either served warlords, followed their own paths or went back to their old Stormtrooper unit. X1 I believe was one of those Imperial warlords yes? So there ya go, though when Palps came back, they all flocked to serve him again.

Then when he died for the final time, the remaining 21 Guardsmen then returned to Yinchorr to mourn their Emperor only to find out that Carnor Jax had betrayed them and the Emperor. They swore to kill the traitor, they were then attacked by an overwhelming number of Stormtroopers, killing all of them expect Kir Kanos who was then the last remaining Guardsmen to avenge their Emperor.

Alright, got it? Good, hope that cleared everything up.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
The Royal Guard are loyal to Palpatine yeah, but when he died the 1st time, his remaining Guardsmen either served warlords, followed their own paths or went back to their old Stormtrooper unit. X1 I believe was one of those Imperial warlords yes? So there ya go, though when Palps came back, they all flocked to serve him again.

Then when he died for the final time, the remaining 21 Guardsmen then returned to Yinchorr to mourn their Emperor only to find out that Carnor Jax had betrayed them and the Emperor. They swore to kill the traitor, they were then attacked by an overwhelming number of Stormtroopers, killing all of them expect Kir Kanos who was then the last remaining Guardsmen to avenge their Emperor.

Alright, got it? Good, hope that cleared everything up.

There were more traitors then Jax, though, weren't there?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
There were more traitors then Jax, though, weren't there?

As far as Royal Guards during the time? No it was just Jax.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
No?... Carnor Jax and Kir Kanos fought for this same reason, and the ONLY source we have is the game and its Wookiepedia page, and the Wookiepedia page lists the Emporer's Royal Guard as the ones who fought X2 early in the Galactic Civil War, AND the ones that help X1 in the Battle of Mustafar.

And with this, I'm done with you. You're no longer worthy of my attention, you used Wookiepedia, as a source.

Congratulations, you are the SirFizzWhizz of the KMC community, you must be very proud. 👆

Originally posted by MythLord
And with this, I'm done with you. You're no longer worthy of my attention, you used Wookiepedia, as a source.

Congratulations, you are the SirFizzWhizz of the KMC community, you must be very proud. 👆

Zenwolf backed up my argument as well 😬

Are you going to address any of my other points?

Cause if not, concession accepted.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I'm not using it as a source, I'm just saying thats what it says.

Why? It's an irrelevant, often wrong source.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Zenwolf backed up my argument as well 😬

I still don't buy it being Palpatine's elite Royal Guards. They don't even have their traditional weaponry.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Are you going to address any of my other points?

Cause if not, concession accepted.

You probably just regurgitated an argument I already countered, in a new form. I had enough cancer from you yesterday, I don't need more today.

But by all means, save face by saying "concession accepted" like the lowlife you are.

Congratulations, this feeling of inadequacy is your reward.

Originally posted by MythLord
Why? It's an irrelevant, often wrong source.

I still don't buy it being Palpatine's elite Royal Guards. They don't even have their traditional weaponry.

You probably just regurgitated an argument I already countered, in a new form. I had enough cancer from you yesterday, I don't need more today.

But by all means, save face by saying "concession accepted" like the lowlife you are.

Congratulations, this feeling of inadequacy is your reward.

Your only point is that Finn's training somehow puts him above a Padawan, and based on showings he's had against other stormtroopers. :/

Thats the same point you keep going over, continuously.

When X2 had done much more impressive things as a clone himself, much less what he did as a Jedi.

Studying the Jedi Arts, having a grueling training regimen, and stomping his peers that have also studied the same stuff he has, doesn't put him above a nameless Padawan, much less someone like Zett Jukassa.

I just re-watched Rey vs Kylo Ren, and just so you know, calling upon the Force, and having a one-with-the-force moment, are 2 VERY different things.

Just as well, earlier in the fight, Rey had used the force, which overpowered Kylo's btw, to get Anakin's lightsaber.

As for the Royal Guards, when they walk in with X1, there is a cutscene, the Royal Guards are holding Force Pikes.

Just as well, for people who don't own the books, wookiepedia can be reliable IF and ONLY if they cite their sources, and you confirm their sources.

How can you confirm if you don't own the books?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How can you confirm if you don't own the books?

I read some parts from FOTJ, but thats about it so far, I've already listened to an Audiobook of TOR: Revan.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Your only point is that Finn's training somehow puts him above a Padawan, and based on showings he's had against other stormtroopers. :/

Thats the same point you keep going over, continuously.

When X2 had done much more impressive things as a clone himself, much less what he did as a Jedi.

Studying the Jedi Arts, having a grueling training regimen, and stomping his peers that have also studied the same stuff he has, doesn't put him above a nameless Padawan, much less someone like Zett Jukassa.

I just re-watched Rey vs Kylo Ren, and just so you know, calling upon the Force, and having a one-with-the-force moment, are 2 VERY different things.

Just as well, earlier in the fight, Rey had used the force, which overpowered Kylo's btw, to get Anakin's lightsaber.

As for the Royal Guards, when they walk in with X1, there is a cutscene, the Royal Guards are holding Force Pikes.

Yeah, imagine how I see someone trained from birth to fight and kill Jedi, and stomped beings with similar training in killing Jedi, can kill a Jedi.

Why, it's almost like I use logic, which by now is a foreign concept to you, I'm certain.

And you need to read a book, for once. The novel describes how Rey had suddenly had a change in her, and attacked viciously beyond even what she thought she'd be capable of. She was experiencing a one with the Force moment. For further reference:

Taken from: The Force Awakens novelisation
Slowly she shook her head. "The Force?" That was what this was about? Instead of moving to defend herself, Rey closed her eyes. Ren hesitated, confused by her actions. A long moment passed, in which Ren sensed a change in the air, a change in her. Then she opened her eyes and attacked, viciously, in a way she didn't know she was capable of, striking again and again as Ren was slowly driven back. The flaring energy from the interacting lightsabers was more pronounced than ever in the flurry of her attack. And-Ren went down.

The Force Awakens Junior Novelisation notes how Ren senses Rey suddenly getting fueled by an emotion stronger than his rage:

Taken from: The Force Awakens junior novelisation
"No. You need a teacher," he said. "I can show you the ways of the Force!"

"'The Force'?" she repeated, sounding confused and exasperated all at once. She closed her eyes for a moment, then lunged at Ren again, more furious than before. And for once, Kylo Ren dueled an opponent who had more anger than he. Or maybe what fueled her wasn't anger. Maybe it was an emotion he didn't recognize anymore. Whatever it was, it took him down.

At least attempt to have common knowledge of Star Wars, and how the Force works.

The fact that she had an easier time calling upon the Force than Ren did, only makes it that much more impressive for Kylo to drive her back, while holding back and being emotionally and physically weakened to the point of fatality.

Keeping in mind, Rey has perfected the art of melee combat and has surpassed troopers trained to fight and kill Jedi.

The weapons they used against X2 weren't Force Pikes, though. They were blasters, and defeating a blaster wielder, for even non Force sensitives with lightsabers, shouldn't be hard.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, imagine how I see someone trained from birth to fight and kill Jedi, and stomped beings with similar training in killing Jedi, can kill a Jedi.

Why, it's almost like I use logic, which by now is a foreign concept to you, I'm certain.

And you need to read a book, for once. The novel describes how Rey had suddenly had a change in her, and attacked viciously beyond even what she thought she'd be capable of. She was experiencing a one with the Force moment. For further reference:

The Force Awakens Junior Novelisation notes how Ren senses Rey suddenly getting fueled by an emotion stronger than his rage:

At least attempt to have common knowledge of Star Wars, and how the Force works.

The fact that she had an easier time calling upon the Force than Ren did, only makes it that much more impressive for Kylo to drive her back, while holding back and being emotionally and physically weakened to the point of fatality.

Keeping in mind, Rey has perfected the art of melee combat and has surpassed troopers trained to fight and kill Jedi.

The weapons they used against X2 weren't Force Pikes, though. They were blasters, and defeating a blaster wielder, for even non Force sensitives with lightsabers, shouldn't be hard.

Uh, the Royal Guards had mastered every conceivable weapon in the Galaxy.

What you pointed out there? Thats not Oneness.

Being trained to kill Jedi does not automatically equal being able to kill Jedi.

They aren't the only ones who were trained "how to kill Jedi".

Almost all the Separatists, CIS, and Imperial forces were trained and programmed "how to kill Jedi".

It doesn't mean they were good at it.

Royal Guards, Inquisitors, Magnaguards, Clone and Stormtroopers.

And Rey had earlier on overpowered Ren's TK on the lightsaber.

Calling on the force and getting Oneness (which you can't get whenever you want btw) are very different things, again.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh, the Royal Guards had mastered every conceivable weapon in the Galaxy.

And? They're still at a disadvantage since they're facing a lightsaber wielder with a blaster.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
What you pointed out there? Thats not Oneness.

Yeah, it is. It's perfectly synonymous with other descriptions of Oneness we've got. In any case, it shows Rey got an amplification through abusing the Force in a way she never thought of before, she became fueled by something even Kylo couldn't comprehend and she herself didn't expect to be so vicious and effective.

No matter how you spin it, she was amplified. The only time Jedi gain such amplifications is when entering in a state comparable to that of Oneness. Prior to that, she's using the Force to resist Kylo, but still fails.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Being trained to kill Jedi does not automatically equal being able to kill Jedi.

They aren't the only ones who were trained "how to kill Jedi".

Almost all the Separatists, CIS, and Imperial forces were trained and programmed "how to kill Jedi".

It doesn't mean they were good at it.

Royal Guards, Inquisitors, Magnaguards, Clone and Stormtroopers.

Yeah, it does equate to them being capable of that. That's called logic.

Clone and Stormtroopers aren't specifically trained to fight Jedi, lmao. They're trained soldiers and marksmen, not melee fighters. And how they overcome Jedi is through sheer number.

The First Order Stormtroopers overcome the Jedi through sheer skill and quality in melee combat. And why did you point out Royal Guards, MagnaGuards and Inquisitors? All of them are equal/superior to standard Jedi Knights.

And a feat you keep ignoring is Kylo slaughtering dozens of these Jedi Knights, thus he's clearly substantially above a standard MagnaGuard, an Inquisitor, or Royal Guard.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
And Rey had earlier on overpowered Ren's TK on the lightsaber.

Calling on the force and getting Oneness (which you can't get whenever you want btw) are very different things, again.

As I said, that makes it better for Kylo because he's stomping someone who can draw on the Force to a greater extent than he can.

And it's Oneness, or a form of amplification that Rey hadn't experienced before.

Beneath Fohargh

Originally posted by MythLord
And? They're still at a disadvantage since they're facing a lightsaber wielder with a blaster.

Yeah, it is. It's perfectly synonymous with other descriptions of Oneness we've got. In any case, it shows Rey got an amplification through abusing the Force in a way she never thought of before, she became fueled by something even Kylo couldn't comprehend and she herself didn't expect to be so vicious and effective.

No matter how you spin it, she was amplified. The only time Jedi gain such amplifications is when entering in a state comparable to that of Oneness. Prior to that, she's using the Force to resist Kylo, but still fails.

Yeah, it does equate to them being capable of that. That's called logic.

Clone and Stormtroopers aren't specifically trained to fight Jedi, lmao. They're trained soldiers and marksmen, not melee fighters. And how they overcome Jedi is through sheer number.

The First Order Stormtroopers overcome the Jedi through sheer skill and quality in melee combat. And why did you point out Royal Guards, MagnaGuards and Inquisitors? All of them are equal/superior to standard Jedi Knights.

And a feat you keep ignoring is Kylo slaughtering dozens of these Jedi Knights, thus he's clearly substantially above a standard MagnaGuard, an Inquisitor, or Royal Guard.

As I said, that makes it better for Kylo because he's stomping someone who can draw on the Force to a greater extent than he can.

And it's Oneness, or a form of amplification that Rey hadn't experienced before.

No it isn't, it doesn't even remotely resemble Oneness.

Kylo slaughtering random Jedi Knights is impressive, but it doesn't put him above X2.

So, Rey, someone who had never ever used the force, is above Ren?

Thanks for the evidence.