Where do YOU put X2?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Then he's inconsistent.

Or maybe someone's better than you expect them? You already painted a fallible hierarchy in your head, so now if something dares to change the order of said hierarchy

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Not that it matters, this is X2 we're talking about.

By the time X2 was already a Jedi, he had mastered Force Jump, took out several Royal
Guards on his own, fought off Magnaguards, 2v1 in single combat.

Oh, and it was said that Magnaguards can move at lightspeed, and know all 7 lightsaber forms.

Finn is a footnote to them.

Oh mah Gerd! Da Force Jump! it's not like dats a basic ability, or nothin'...

Kylo can beat MagnaGuards, or Royal Guards.

And lol at you taking the MagnaGuard quote of being "lightspeed" seriously. My trolling aside, I'm sure nobody believes that, and if that were true then Kenobi, Maul and Anakin should all be significantly faster than they actually are.

At best they're hypersonic+, but then you could argue the same for Ren.

Originally posted by MythLord
Or maybe someone's better than you expect them? You already painted a fallible hierarchy in your head, so now if something dares to change the order of said hierarchy

Oh mah Gerd! Da Force Jump! it's not like dats a basic ability, or nothin'...

Kylo can beat MagnaGuards, or Royal Guards.

And lol at you taking the MagnaGuard quote of being "lightspeed" seriously. My trolling aside, I'm sure nobody believes that, and if that were true then Kenobi, Maul and Anakin should all be significantly faster than they actually are.

At best they're hypersonic+, but then you could argue the same for Ren.

The fight between Mace and Palpatine lasted like 2 seconds because of how fast they were going, but they still had a full fight, IIRC.

If he's as good as those accolades says.

Pretty sure a single Royal Guard would give Kylo hell though, even based on what I've seen.

What I meant was, X2 did it as a rebel, the force jump, the killing Royal Guards and shit. You can lowball it all you like, but its still a very impressive feat.

If you believe all this shit then you must have Ren ranked pretty high, up there with Kyle Katarn or some shit.

Kylo Ren is hypersonic, now?

KEK.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Kylo Ren is hypersonic, now?

KEK.

And apparently Finn can take on Padawan's and Magnaguards by himself, and he'd also give Jango Fett and Boba Fett a good fight.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Kylo Ren is hypersonic, now?

KEK.

If we use Composite, then yes. 🙂

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You do know that almost every duel that happens in all mediums lasts... a second, in reality, right?

No shit? That doesn't make them lightspeed, lmfao.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
If he's as good as those accolades says.

Then what? Finn, Ren and Rey are all pretty high in the hierarchy, in comparison to where most people place them cuz movie and face value and being ignorant of circumstances.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Pretty sure a single Royal Guard would give Kylo hell though, even based on what I've seen.

Nah, not really. Maybe if it was the Kylo who fought Finn. Two or three would give him some major grief, anything above beats him. I can agree on that.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
What I meant was, X2 did it as a rebel, the force jump, the killing Royal Guards and shit. You can lowball it all you like, but its still a very impressive feat.

I'm saying using a Force Jump isn't impressive, which it isn't. It's a basic ability.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
If you believe all this shit then you must have Ren ranked pretty high, up there with Kyle Katarn or some shit.

Nope, but nice try to lessen your humiliation by falsefully accusing me of having a stupid opinion 👆

Kylo ain't touching Katarn... yet. We'll see what happens in Episode VIII, tho.

Originally posted by MythLord
If we use Composite, then yes. 🙂

No shit? That doesn't make them lightspeed, lmfao.

Then what? Finn, Ren and Rey are all pretty high in the hierarchy, in comparison to where most people place them cuz movie and face value and being ignorant of circumstances.

Nah, not really. Maybe if it was the Kylo who fought Finn. Two or three would give him some major grief, anything above beats him. I can agree on that.

I'm saying using a Force Jump isn't impressive, which it isn't. It's a basic ability.

Nope, but nice try to lessen your humiliation by falsefully accusing me of having a stupid opinion 👆

Kylo ain't touching Katarn... yet. We'll see what happens in Episode VIII, tho.

Then where the hell do you have him?

Keep in mind, I've only been arguing for Clone/Rebel X2, and so far, X2 takes him, without even using a melee weapon. :/

X2 has taken 3 Royal Guards, and he's taken 2 Magnaguards by himself, and been able to stand with Grievous and not get stomped immediately, regardless of whether or not it was with Windu's help.

If we're using Jedi X2, he stomps.

Blaster bolts in canon has no confirmed speed, tbh. Needless to say, I doubt it's approaching Hypersonic at any rate.

Irl bullets can reach supersonic speeds and higher, tho.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Blaster bolts in canon has no confirmed speed, tbh. Needless to say, I doubt it's approaching Hypersonic at any rate.

Hence why I said composite. Canon characters are significantly slower than their Legends selves, for sure.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Then where the hell do you have him?

Not Kyle Katarn level. But above X2, tbh.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Keep in mind, I've only been arguing for Clone/Rebel X2, and so far, X2 takes him, without even using a melee weapon. :/

If we're using Jedi X2, he stomps.

That's cute, Kylo ain't getting stomped by X2, lmao.

Originally posted by MythLord
Hence why I said composite. Canon characters are significantly slower than their Legends selves, for sure.

Not Kyle Katarn level. But above X2, tbh.

That's cute, Kylo ain't getting stomped by X2, lmao.

...But why isn't he though? 😬

What is Kylo Ren going to against someone with X2's feats?

Someone who has astronomically better feats.

He fought all those guys as a clone and he improved drastically once he became a Jedi (obviously).

Your entire argument has been based on assumption that he could take this character, and that character, when he clearly has done nothing to prove that he could. Hence, your argument is pointless, you lose.

Kylo Ren has tons of accolades going for him, but none of those are nearly enough to put him close to X2.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...But why isn't he though? 😬

What is Kylo Ren going to against someone with X2's feats?

Someone who has astronomically better feats.

He fought all those guys as a clone and he improved drastically once he became a Jedi (obviously).

Your entire argument has been based on assumption that he could take this character, and that character, when he clearly has done nothing to prove that he could. Hence, your argument is pointless, you lose.

Kylo Ren has tons of accolades going for him, but none of those are nearly enough to put him close to X2.

You've been ignoring me this entire conversation, haven't you? You essentially just keep regurgitating the same argument, but phrased differently. You can either continue making me run in circles or concede.

But anyways, stomping the absolute best of an Order of supersoldiers trained to face Jedi, that go through rigorous training simulations several times per day since birth, for decades on end, and his superior -- is better than fighting a Jedi Master, fighting a MagnaGuard, learning to use Force Jump and then improving.

Of course, Ren also has feats of slaughtering several Jedi Knights, which easily surpasses killing a MagnaGuard or two.

Originally posted by MythLord
You've been ignoring me this entire conversation, haven't you? You essentially just keep regurgitating the same argument, but phrased differently. You can either continue making me run in circles or concede.

But anyways, stomping the absolute best of an Order of supersoldiers trained to face Jedi, that go through rigorous training simulations several times per day since birth, for decades on end, and his superior -- is better than fighting a Jedi Master, fighting a MagnaGuard, learning to use Force Jump and then improving.

Of course, Ren also has feats of slaughtering several Jedi Knights, which easily surpasses killing a MagnaGuard or two.

I don't think you know anything about Magnaguards besides what you've watched in shows and movies.

Uh, no, it isn't, Kylo Ren stomping Finn, whose best feat is being the best of the First Order Stormtroopers, isn't better then beating a Jedi Master and taking on 2 Magnaguards as a clone, it just isn't. And everyone, Literally EVERYONE agrees.

Everyone... EVERYONE is disagreeing with you on Finn.

No one, absolutely NO ONE thinks he has what it takes to take on any Jedi.

Btw, I was looking through it, and Imperial Stormtroopers have exactly the same training as First Order Stormtroopers, just that they do it since birth, and Imperial Stormtroopers do it for about 2-3 years, the First Order Stormtroopers aren't nearly as impressive as you're making them out to be.

Again, those are the feats of JUST Clone/Rebel X2, he hasn't even become a Jedi by that point.

Come up with something more the his accolades and stomping Finn, or you lose. Thats just plain how it is, Kylo Ren stomping Finn doesn't even put him remotely in the same league as X2.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Magnaguards have killed several Jedi Knights in single combat. :/

Yeah, several of them against one. Your average MagnaGuard = your average Jedi Knight.
And this isn't just "several Jedi", it's literally dozens.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I don't think you know anything about Magnaguards besides what you've watched in shows and movies.

Um... check that again:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/overview-on-magnaguards-skills-in-combat/107510/

I'm the one who made that, broski.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh, no, it isn't, Kylo Ren stomping Finn, whose best feat is being the best of the First Order Stormtroopers, isn't better then beating a Jedi Master and taking on 2 Magnaguards as a clone, it just isn't. And everyone, Literally EVERYONE agrees.

Nobody has yet to stand up for X2 regarding a fight between him and Kylo Ren, so that whole "EVERYONE" thing isn't a factor. Try winning adebate on the merit of your own arguments, not just blindly following the vast majority.

And sure simply beating Finn probably isn't better. But stomping him, while at the same time being emotionally and physically crippled? Certainly is a better feat, 👆

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Everyone... EVERYONE is disagreeing with you on Finn.

No one, absolutely NO ONE thinks he has what it takes to take on any Jedi.

Stop with the bandwagon fallacy, already. EVERYONE who disagrees with me can stand up and defend their own case/counter mine. Such hasn't happened yet, and so far several users do freely and openly agree with my case on Finn.

What some other users think is still irrelevant here because it's not them debating me, it's you, and so far your arguments are some of the most cringe-worthy I've seen.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Btw, I was looking through it, and Imperial Stormtroopers have exactly the same training as First Order Stormtroopers, just that they do it since birth, and Imperial Stormtroopers do it for about 2-3 years, the First Order Stormtroopers aren't nearly as impressive as you're making them out to be.

No, they don't have the same training. Their training isn't inspired by the Jedi, their training doesn't include several rigorous training sessions since birth on a daily basis, their training(for the most part) doesn't dwell into high-tier melee combat, etc.

It's not the same thing, something that cannot get through your cranium.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, several of them against one. Your average MagnaGuard = your average Jedi Knight.
And this isn't just "several Jedi", it's literally dozens.

Um... check that again:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/overview-on-magnaguards-skills-in-combat/107510/

I'm the one who made that, broski.

Nobody has yet to stand up for X2 regarding a fight between him and Kylo Ren, so that whole "EVERYONE" thing isn't a factor. Try winning adebate on the merit of your own arguments, not just blindly following the vast majority.

And sure simply beating Finn probably isn't better. But stomping him, while at the same time being emotionally and physically crippled? Certainly is a better feat, 👆

Stop with the bandwagon fallacy, already. EVERYONE who disagrees with me can stand up and defend their own case/counter mine. Such hasn't happened yet, and so far several users do freely and openly agree with my case on Finn.

What some other users think is still irrelevant here because it's not them debating me, it's you, and so far your arguments are some of the most cringe-worthy I've seen.

No, they don't have the same training. Their training isn't inspired by the Jedi, their training doesn't include several rigorous training sessions since birth on a daily basis, their training(for the most part) doesn't dwell into high-tier melee combat, etc.

It's not the same thing, something that cannot get through your cranium.

You openly admitted he couldn't take a Jedi Knight.

As a Clone/Rebel, X2 was taking on multiple Magnaguards, as well as multiple Royal Guards. You just admitted that Kylo Ren would lose to more then 3 Royal Guards, and X2 has taken on more then that by himself as a rebel.

I don't recall a Jedi ever being tagged by a Stormtrooper, of any kind.

You have been spouting all this Jedi-esque bs and have yet to post it btw, not denying it exists, but it'd be better if you posted it.

I saw Finn's respect thread, and his training aside, he hasn't done anything impressive besides tag Kylo Ren when he was holding back.

Here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t627711.html

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Finn isn't impressive enough as a single entity to make Kylo Ren stomping him better.

You openly admitted he couldn't take a Jedi Knight.

As a Clone/Rebel, X2 was taking on multiple Magnaguards, as well as multiple Royal Guards. You just admitted that Kylo Ren would lose to more then 3 Royal Guards, and X2 has taken on more then that by himself as a rebel.

I don't recall a Jedi ever being tagged by a Stormtrooper, of any kind.

You have been spouting all this Jedi-esque bs and have yet to post it btw, not denying it exists, but it'd be better if you posted it.

I saw Finn's respect thread, and his training aside, he hasn't done anything impressive besides tag Kylo Ren when he was holding back.

Here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t627711.html

Yes he has, you keep denying it.

When did I admit that? I admitted he cannot take a Master, and would probably lose to a Knight, but he'd give them hell.

Ah, it's from the Official Star Wars G+ page(not the community, the page run by the Disney administrators):

Regarding X2's feat: He didn't beat them CQC, he shot at them with blaster fire. So he's a skilled marksman, has nothing to do with his dueling capabilities. He also didn't fight 4 of them at the same time, if Kylo fought ten of then, one-at-a-time, he'd win. If he gets gang-banged, he'd lose.

The only other time he fought them, would be when he faced X1, and even then those weren't Palpatine's Royal Guards(i.e. the ones I think can take Kylo if there's multiple of them), and they weren't wielding their standard weaponry, but rather blasters, which X2 as a Jedi can logically deflect and cut through. Nothing Kylo isn't capable of doing.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yes he has, you keep denying it.

When did I admit that? I admitted he cannot take a Master, and would probably lose to a Knight, but he'd give them hell.

Ah, it's from the Official Star Wars G+ page(not the community, the page run by the Disney administrators):

Regarding X2's feat: He didn't beat them CQC, he shot at them with blaster fire. So he's a skilled marksman, has nothing to do with his dueling capabilities. He also didn't fight 4 of them at the same time, if Kylo fought ten of then, one-at-a-time, he'd win. If he gets gang-banged, he'd lose.

The only other time he fought them, would be when he faced X1, and even then those weren't Palpatine's Royal Guards(i.e. the ones I think can take Kylo if there's multiple of them), and they weren't wielding their standard weaponry, but rather blasters, which X2 as a Jedi can logically deflect and cut through. Nothing Kylo isn't capable of doing.

Ok, without referencing Finn's training, which shouldn't matter against someone "like Kylo Ren".

Tell me what Finn has done, that makes stomping him while injured impressive?

I've been presenting my argument, and you just keep saying "Well, Finn was trained in the Jedi Arts and he was the best of the First Order Stormtroopers".

But besides injuring an injured Kylo Ren who was holding back, what has he done?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Blaster bolts in canon has no confirmed speed, tbh. Needless to say, I doubt it's approaching Hypersonic at any rate.

I remember seeing some long ass nerdy calc somewhere proclaiming that the blaster bolts in the movies were a little over the speed of the best pitchers in the MLB. Given that the very best batters in the world bat, what? .300-.400? And Jedi bat away like a dozen+ in like every scene, if we take that calc at face value, Jedi are definitely superhuman, but not by a great deal.

Originally posted by MythLord
Regarding X2's feat: He didn't beat them CQC, he shot at them with blaster fire. So he's a skilled marksman, has nothing to do with his dueling capabilities. He also didn't fight 4 of them at the same time, if Kylo fought ten of then, one-at-a-time, he'd win. If he gets gang-banged, he'd lose.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
X1 took over RIGHT where Palpatine left off, maybe a day or two after Palpatine's death, though the army's morale wasn't nearly the same.

Ok, without referencing Finn's training, which shouldn't matter against someone "like Kylo Ren".

Tell me what Finn has done, that makes stomping him while injured impressive?

I've been presenting my argument, and you just keep saying "Well, Finn was trained in the Jedi Arts and he was the best of the First Order Stormtroopers".

But besides injuring an injured Kylo Ren who was holding back, what has he done?

And? Those still weren't Palpatine's Royal Guards, and like you say their moral was significantly less.

What has Finn done? How about stomping one of the best FO Stormtroopers in three seconds? Stomping 2 in under a minute? Stomping several other Elites one after anothers, some even enraged and wielding superior weaponry, while he was getting tired and holding back.

How about being an exemplary soldier, who casually succeeded in the "rigorous" training sessions of the First Order?

How about having an in-depth knowledge on several, if not all, battles of the Clone Wars?

And of course being trained similarly to Jedi in terms of melee combat, which is also an extreme feat.

I'm mentioning why Kylo's more impressive.

Originally posted by MythLord
And? Those still weren't Palpatine's Royal Guards, and like you say their moral was significantly less.

What has Finn done? How about stomping one of the best FO Stormtroopers in three seconds? Stomping 2 in under a minute? Stomping several other Elites one after anothers, some even enraged and wielding superior weaponry, while he was getting tired and holding back.

How about being an exemplary soldier, who casually succeeded in the "rigorous" training sessions of the First Order?

How about having an in-depth knowledge on several, if not all, battles of the Clone Wars?

And of course being trained similarly to Jedi in terms of melee combat, which is also an extreme feat.

I'm mentioning why Kylo's more impressive.

Thats cool. Anything else? Because as far as I can tell, it still doesn't beat X2's feat of slaughtering over 50 Imperial Stormtroopers in a single battle, along with Vader's personal droid bodyguard, on a dark side nexus, while X2 is a lightsider.