Kun's I, Jedi accolade/feat, Kun > Luke confirmed.

Comicvine.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not even remotely, I'm exposing fake Kun wank for what it is.

I've said this before, but accolades state DE Luke =/> Vader. More important is how you made the logical inferrence that Kun > Master Luke equates to Kun > DE Sidious.

But cool, we are in agreement there. Now with that in mind I'll address your points.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nah, Kyp Durron makes up some of the difference between Spirit Kun and prime Kun. Still Kun should be capable of a very similar feat in life, given how drastically large the difference in power is stated to be between the two on both occasions.

In other words Kun > Spirit Kun + Kyp > Luke, especially including prime Kun's amulet as standard gear. Being vastly more powerful than Luke is something DE Sidious very clearly still is by this point.

And by your understanding DE Luke => Vader and considering that 5-6 years after that he's rebuilding Vader's fortress (and cloaking a 1.5km warship, it would seem) without much strain, capabilities well beyond Vader, we should assume in the year between his encounter with DE Palpatine and Kun, he experienced significant growth. Enough, most likely, to put him around Revan/Krayt level.

So I'll ask again how this is consistent with your opinion that:

1. RotS, RotJ and DE Sidious (shall we throw in TPM? I don't know) > Kun, despite there being no proof he could one-shot Luke as a low-end showing, if even at all.

2. Kun is a peer to Krayt and Revan, despite JA Luke approaching, if not being on that level, whom Kun one-shot in a low-end showing.

As for Sidious being "vastly more powerful" than Luke? Who all evidence suggests sits somewhere between Vader and Krayt? Another contradiction from you it would seem, as instead you've insisted repeatedly that:

Originally posted by AncientPower
Revan, Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Krayt, Valkorion, Kun, Caedus, Plagueis, Lord Nyax, Talzin, C'boath, Darish Vol, Taalon, Muur, Ragnos, Nadd and Vader are far closer together in power than many would like to believe.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah, by your understanding Kun is drastically more powerful than he was as a spirit, in which he one-shot Luke with little difficulty. So I guess Prime Kun would dispatch Luke as an afterthought? Yeah something like that.

Luke was trained to challenge a different kind of foe. Therefore, when they finally met, Kun overwhelmed Luke by virtue of Sith Sorcery.

I have recently procured some G-level canon information, that indicates why Sidious may not be the strongest sith on the battlefield, but rather that he's the 'strongest' in a caesarean sense.

I'm sure you have.

Ah, ever the assumptive one.

Kyp's powers are the minority in the axis of power between himself and Exar Kun, that is not to say that his lresence is insignificant. Only that his presence is incapable of filling the gap in power that Exar Kun suffered in that state.

Yes he would be signifcantly more powerful in his living incarnation, however the circumstances of the fight must be observed. Luke faced Kyp Durron and Exar Kun simultaneously in the fight, a direct confrontation would obviously be decidedly more accurate.

Sidious floored Luke and could've easily defeated him again if not for his arrogance. Luke gave in to Sidious because he knew they jever had a chabce of defeating him, he was far too powerful.

You're creating a contradiction in logic where there is none, of course DE Sidious can casually defeat Luke in a Force exchange. Actually reading Dark Empire might help on that front.

As for your last but certainly not least idiotic assumption, FOTJ Luke is far more powerful than he ever was in his early years.

The over-arching theme you fail to grasp, is that in Star Wars, when two major powerhouses have a confrontation, there is always a decent fight at the very least. Actual 'stomps' are a rarity not a normity, as was my point.

But let us drop this fascade, shall we? You're hounding my threads to find some precious, non-existent contradiction amongst my statements. You can cease your ludicrous charade of actually being interested in objective debate. Your obsession with seeing me somehow degraded infront of the masses is quaint.

Originally posted by AncientPower

Kyp's powers are the minority in the axis of power between himself and Exar Kun, that is not to say that his lresence is insignificant. Only that his presence is incapable of filling the gap in power that Exar Kun suffered in that state.

Agreed.

Yes he would be signifcantly more powerful in his living incarnation, however the circumstances of the fight must be observed. Luke faced Kyp Durron and Exar Kun simultaneously in the fight, a direct confrontation would obviously be decidedly more accurate.

Agreed.

Sidious floored Luke and could've easily defeated him again if not for his arrogance. Luke gave in to Sidious because he knew they jever had a chabce of defeating him, he was far too powerful.

Correction - Sidious defeated Luke in a contest of duelling. If one is also to agree that the darkside environment of Byss was passively 'amping' Sidious, and in coordinance, draining Luke, than we're introduced to one circumstance or one 'spanner' thrown in the assumptive opinion that says Luke is far below Sidious.

You're creating a contradiction in logic where there is none, of course DE Sidious can casually defeat Luke in a Force exchange. Actually reading Dark Empire might help on that front.

In the Dark Empire comics, we see these exchanges of Force power between the two. On Byss' cloning facility:

1. Luke Force pushing Palpatine into a wall
2. Sidious presenting superior physical strength in a duel
3. Sidious mind-controlling Luke

On the Eclipse:

1. Palaptine briefly knocking back Luke with his lightning
2. Luke resisting a mind control feint
3. Luke winning a duel while actively boosted by Leia
4. The twins severing Palaptine's force connection

If there is some massive disparity between the two, then you're not making it clear.

As for your last but certainly not least idiotic assumption, FOTJ Luke is far more powerful than he ever was in his early years.

Agreed. But Kun should still be able to compete in his corporeal body.

But let us drop this fascade, shall we? You're hounding my threads to find some precious, non-existent contradiction amongst my statements. You can cease your ludicrous charade of actually being interested in objective debate. Your obsession with seeing me somehow degraded infront of the masses is quaint.

This is correct. But Beni knows he can not refute the feat with objective truth, that would be to prove that Kun was more powerful in flesh than in spirit. He can not do that anymore, so naturally, he resorts to attacking your opinions by finding them inconsistent with the feat it's self. Beni is not smart enough to know that this the lowest form of debating. But you should also be smart enough to respond with this:

"Beni if you think that this makes Kun > Sidious, then that is your opinion and I'm fine with that, but I couldn't possibly comment on the matter "

End of thread.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
This is correct. But Beni knows he can not refute the feat with objective truth, that would be to prove that Kun was more powerful in flesh than in spirit. He can not do that anymore, so naturally, he resorts to attacking your opinions by finding them inconsistent with the feat it's self. Beni is not smart enough to know that this the lowest form of debating. But you should also be smart enough to respond with this:

"Beni if you think that this makes Kun > Sidious, then that is your opinion and I'm fine with that, but I couldn't possibly comment on the matter "

End of thread.

Oh no you didn't. 🙄

I've explained my reasoning on Kun's spirit feats a dozen times (and the last time I did AP rage quit the debate, but then, that was before your time) and could do so again here, but its a copy+paste job that's grown tedious, whereas this is much more fun. 🙂

Regardless, reductio ad absurdum is a perfectly valid form of argument, thanks. Your distress is noted though.

I rage quit? Your entire argument is based on actively misinterpreting statements and relying on a sole statement that observes Kun growing 'very' powerful on Kyp's hate. Because we all know how quantifiable 'very' is.

If that's your idea of an intellectual victory then you really have lost it.

Yeah, you quit the debate in rage. Sorry.

And while you may think that my idea of an intellectual victory, I couldn't possibly comment. 🙂

I didn't quit the debate in rage, how farcical, I pointed out how you had no argument besides what amounted to a debating edition of 'I know you are, but what am I?' dependent on flawed appeals to interpretation. Seeing how futile it was to continue debating somebody who debates for the sole purpose of spite regardless of a lack of legs to stand on, I stopped wasting time.

You have a very funny way of misremembering things.

Originally posted by AncientPower
But let us drop this fascade, shall we? You're hounding my threads to find some precious, non-existent contradiction amongst my statements. You can cease your ludicrous charade of actually being interested in objective debate. Your obsession with seeing me somehow degraded infront of the masses is quaint.

What's wrong AP, getting a little hot under the collar? Well at least that's what I gather from you glossing over several of my points. mmm

But yeah, as an upstanding member of this community it's my duty to ferret out double standards wherever I see them. Don't hate. 🙂

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kyp's powers are the minority in the axis of power between himself and Exar Kun, that is not to say that his lresence is insignificant. Only that his presence is incapable of filling the gap in power that Exar Kun suffered in that state.

Yes he would be signifcantly more powerful in his living incarnation, however the circumstances of the fight must be observed. Luke faced Kyp Durron and Exar Kun simultaneously in the fight, a direct confrontation would obviously be decidedly more accurate.

Sidious floored Luke and could've easily defeated him again if not for his arrogance. Luke gave in to Sidious because he knew they jever had a chabce of defeating him, he was far too powerful.

You're creating a contradiction in logic where there is none, of course DE Sidious can casually defeat Luke in a Force exchange. Actually reading Dark Empire might help on that front.

As far as this goes to prove that Sidious could do the same to an even stronger Luke? Even more tenuous. And while significantly weakened? ****ing laughable. The best he managed one-shot in such a state was Leia. 😂

And your lack of any attempt to address Kun's supposed parity with Revan and Krayt is rather telling, at best you've made a weak case for DE Sidious being Kun's peer. Yeah, I'm afraid you're going to have to do a lot better than that.

As for your last but certainly not least idiotic assumption, FOTJ Luke is far more powerful than he ever was in his early years.

The over-arching theme you fail to grasp, is that in Star Wars, when two major powerhouses have a confrontation, there is always a decent fight at the very least. Actual 'stomps' are a rarity not a normity, as was my point.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I didn't quit the debate in rage, how farcical, I pointed out how you had no argument besides what amounted to a debating edition of 'I know you are, but what am I?' dependent on flawed appeals to interpretation. Seeing how futile it was to continue debating somebody who debates for the sole purpose of spite regardless of a lack of legs to stand on, I stopped wasting time.

You have a very funny way of misremembering things.

But I'm glad we got to do this again. 🤣

Don't pretend you're some local police for debating standards, you've been obsessed with me for years. Was being my ever loyal pawn on swtor so traumatic for you, little Beni boy?

No he's feeble in the sense that Exar Kun's attempt was greatly superior. He's not so to the degree that he's absolutely insignificant. Why the hell would he use them if they were beyond his need entirely? Yet again equating things with no basis.

I know what the circumstances are, everybody here does, your condescending smilies makes your points no less baseless. Because again you're making assumptions about my statements with no viable basis.

He hit him with a single bolt, was clearly not trying at all to put him down for good and was absolutely confident in his ability to control Luke at the time. Confidence which was not misplaced.

Please go ahead and make the argument that Luke is withstanding a full on barrage from Sidious. I don't need to make any argument for Sidious, ny arguments are for Kun based on my personal ranking. But if you think Kun > Sidious, please go and debate that hilarity.

You're failing to see how it is relevant when you tried to point out a contradiction in my statements by using a list in which I was pointing out prime Luke Skywalker? How supremely convenient of you.

DE Sidious would floor DE/JA Luke, but certainly not his later incarnations.

Beni, what you are attempting is obvious, painfully so.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't know friend, for someone who didn't want to waste any more of their time, your post was rather long and angry.

But I'm glad we got to do this again. 🤣

I certainly hope you don't translate this to progress, because your counter arguments have been tarpitted for months now. I'm glad I got to see your idea of an actual debate though.

Here's a hint: next time you attempt to point out double standards, it is best you actually try and understand an argument before you comment on it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Don't pretend your some local police for debating standards, you've been obsessed with me for years. Was being my ever loyal pawn on swtor so traumatic for you, little Beni boy?

No he's feeble in the sense that Exar Kun's attempt was greatly superior. He's not so to the degree that he's absolutely insignificant. Why the hell would he use them if they were beyond his need entirely? Yet again equating things with no basis.

I know what the cifcumstances are, everybody here does, your condescensing smilies makes your points no less baseless. Because again you're making assumptions about my statements with no viable basis.

He hit him with a single bolt, was clearly not trying at all to put him down for good and was absolutely confident in his ability to control Luke at the time. Confidence which was not misplaced.

Please go ahead and make the argument that Luke is withstanding a full on barrage from Sidious. I don't need to make any argument for Sidious, ny arguments are for Kun based on my personal ranking. But if you think Kun > Sidious, please go and debate that hilarity.

Nice attempt at evasion though, but nah I think this contradiction in logical warrants an explanation. And in the absence of one merely demonstrates how ludicrous your assessment really is.

You're failing to see how it is relevant when you tried to point out a contradiction in my statements by using a list in which I was pointing out prime Luke Skywalker? How supremely convenient of you.

DE Sidious would floor DE/JA Luke, but certainly not his later incarnations.

Beni, what you are attempting is obvious, painfully so.

Butthurt is unreal in this *****.

We need more hatred for this forum to rise up to uncharted levels.

Did you just state Sidious in Dark Empire wasn't weakened? Christ almighty.