Robert Reynolds

Originally posted by Sharivan

Molecule Man's abilities were restricted and could only influence things within the range of a city.

As for the public:

Owen didn't vaporize Sentry with an energy blast,
something a Thanos, or Odin would commonly use to crack Sentry.

Owen used his power (unstable or not) at close range to disperse Sentry's molecules,
and then he put them back together twice.
Regardless that Sentry's made of unique molecules,
he's still made of molecules nonetheless,
and that falls right into Owen's power. (unstable or not)

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, the "current power level" during Dark Reign was known:

"I control the molecules of the very world, well, the ones around me"

--------------------------------------------------

So less than global, and it can't be denied.

When taking into account his feats, pathetically far less than global.

Literally, his influence stretched across a Town of 44 people.

--------------------------------------------------

So what were Owen's feats in Dark Reign aside from confronting Sentry:

1) Went to his tiny home town,
and dispersed the molecules of all the residents there (44 people)
the molecules were left right in the town btw.

2) Re-arrange the molecules of a handful of Avengers (he didn't want to kill anyone)

3) Mind-phuk Norman Osborn via brain molecules

--------------------------------------------------

So what were Evil Molecule Man's feats: (Owen Reece unleashed)

1) ripped the essence of a Cube being from another universe away

2) cosmic speed-blitzing simultaneously with devastating energy blasts plus also

3) reality warping the most powerful Cube being

4) battling on all sorts of Planes of Existence

5) contributing (perhaps mostly) to spacial-temporal restructuring within Realities across the infinite Multiverse and beyond!

--------------------------------------------------

The Owen Reece Void/Sentry defeated pales in comparison with unleashed Owen. stoned

-------------------------------------------------------

So, ... on top of being mentally unstable!
(Owen created illusionary facsimiles of Beyonder, Mephisto & others,
so he could talk to himself since they were reflections of his sub-conscious)

... Owen also de-powered himself at the end of the Post-Beyonder fight:

--------------------------

... Which is probably why in the Sentry encounter he's limited to localized molecular control:

(not even global)

(Owen himself stated this)

(Victoria Hand confirms this fact)

--------------------------

... so that ... on top of literally wanting to lose during the Sentry comedy ...

Actually, I prefer to say,
Owen eased the win for Sentry, rather than outright handing it to him.
... meh, Sentry was obliterated on 3 separate occasions by Owen,
and at the end, Sentry even got a clean shot at Owen,
(same looking energy he used to defeat Owen)
and Owen immediately recovered/retaliated & exploded Sentry a Third time:

Then, the same looking orange energy has a lasting affect 3 pages later. lol
It seems to me, sub-consciously Owen had enough, and it was time to go away,
and Sentry was the only one powerful enough he could count on for the job.

Imo.

===============================

So, Owen didn't, and showed No sign of having trans-multiversal,
multiversal, universal, galactic, solar system, solar, global, country,
state even city wide range of influence over molecules, as opposed
to actual On Panel feats affecting 44 people in a tiny Town, and a
handful of Avengers. While beyond that literally stating clearly
without room for interpretation his limitations. Even using a
comparison: 'the World? ... actually no, ... just those around me.'

That's a far cry from the guy contributing to a Trans-Multiversal feat ey?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually ... a Town of 44 people. ... So, far less than a city. 🙂

As for the public:

Owen didn't vaporize Sentry with an energy blast,
something a Thanos, or Odin would commonly use to crack Sentry.

Owen used his power (unstable or not) at close range to disperse Sentry's molecules,
and then he put them back together twice.
Regardless that Sentry's made of unique molecules,
he's still made of molecules nonetheless,
and that falls right into Owen's power. (unstable or not)

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, the "current power level" during Dark Reign was known:

"I control the molecules of the very world, well, [b]the ones around me"

--------------------------------------------------

So less than global, and it can't be denied.

When taking into account his feats, pathetically far less than global.

Literally, his influence stretched across a Town of 44 people.

--------------------------------------------------

So what were Owen's feats in Dark Reign aside from confronting Sentry:

1) Went to his tiny home town,
and dispersed the molecules of all the residents there (44 people)
the molecules were left right in the town btw.

2) Re-arrange the molecules of a handful of Avengers (he didn't want to kill anyone)

3) Mind-phuk Norman Osborn via brain molecules

--------------------------------------------------

So what were Evil Molecule Man's feats: (Owen Reece unleashed)

1) ripped the essence of a Cube being from another universe away

2) cosmic speed-blitzing simultaneously with devastating energy blasts plus also

3) reality warping the most powerful Cube being

4) battling on all sorts of Planes of Existence

5) contributing (perhaps mostly) to spacial-temporal restructuring within Realities across the infinite Multiverse and beyond!

--------------------------------------------------

The Owen Reece Void/Sentry defeated pales in comparison with unleashed Owen. stoned [/B]

Originally posted by Mr Master
-------------------------------------------------------

So, ... on top of being mentally unstable!
(Owen created illusionary facsimiles of Beyonder, Mephisto & others,
so he could talk to himself since they were reflections of his sub-conscious)

... Owen also [b]de-powered himself at the end of the Post-Beyonder fight:

--------------------------

... Which is probably why in the Sentry encounter he's limited to localized molecular control:

(not even global)

(Owen himself stated this)

(Victoria Hand confirms this fact)

--------------------------

... so that ... on top of literally wanting to lose during the Sentry comedy ...

Actually, I prefer to say,
Owen eased the win for Sentry, rather than outright handing it to him.
... meh, Sentry was obliterated on 3 separate occasions by Owen,
and at the end, Sentry even got a clean shot at Owen,
(same looking energy he used to defeat Owen)
and Owen immediately recovered/retaliated & exploded Sentry a Third time:

Then, the same looking orange energy has a lasting affect 3 pages later. lol
It seems to me, sub-consciously Owen had enough, and it was time to go away,
and Sentry was the only one powerful enough he could count on for the job.

Imo.

===============================

So, Owen didn't, and showed No sign of having trans-multiversal,
multiversal, universal, galactic, solar system, solar, global, country,
state even city wide range of influence over molecules, as opposed
to actual On Panel feats affecting 44 people in a tiny Town, and a
handful of Avengers. While beyond that literally stating clearly
without room for interpretation his limitations. Even using a
comparison: 'the World? ... actually no, ... just those around me.'

That's a far cry from the guy contributing to a Trans-Multiversal feat ey? [/B]

👆

Nicely done.

So, it was even less impressive than how I remembered it. It wasn't even a whole city.

Just a small town.

Agreed 👆
Its a shame Mr Master had to waste time breaking it down when it was already picked at when Dark Reign was first released 😬

But...but... brevoort said owen am full power and sentry am omniverse in interview!!1!!!!!!1!111! durfist

Originally posted by Galan007
But...but... brevoort said owen am full power and sentry am omniverse in interview!!1!!!!!!1!111! durfist

You see, this is why I said Tom Brevoort doesn't read comic books.

That, or he ignores everything that happens in them in lieu of whatever fan-fiction he feels like writing.

Somebody PM me if people try using interviews, message board posts, tweets, blogs, etc. It's in the rules they are not to be used, and I've already posted the rules in this thread. The days of a few posters turning threads into nonsense are over.

Originally posted by Sharivan
You see, this is why I said Tom Brevoort doesn't read comic books.

That, or he ignores everything that happens in them in lieu of whatever fan-fiction he feels like writing.

😐

Originally posted by abhilegend
Guy said Black Panther was stronger than Silver Surfer in defense of cosmic armbar.

😐

Yet another reason why using anything the fedora wearing bastard says should be a bannable offense.

Again, it's the same nonsense with the backfire effect. I've schooled Mr Master on Molecule Man / Sentry related topics before, but he continues to post his point of view and ignore all the context which shows all the actual context:

1. Molecule Man was NOT limited to a 44-people-village-city molecule manipulation.

http://i.imgur.com/1er9xb8.jpg

In that scan you can clearly see the Molecule Man state, that he only wants the town he was in:
"Take the world. Now! It's yours to have."
"I don't want the world. I want here."

But in the minds of stupid people that must mean, that he wouldn't have been able to manipulate the entire planet, even if had wanted to, because hurrr hurrr derp derp?
That entire "local molecule manipulation" argument needs to go, since it straight up ignores SO MUCH provided context.

2. "The molecules around me."

http://i.imgur.com/XDem4xh.jpg

There you have a scan of an older version of Molecule Man, where he got refered to as one of the most powerful beings in the universe by the narration.

http://i.imgur.com/UwufFIv.jpg

In the same comic Molecule Man fought against Aron, the Watcher, who managed to beat Molecule Man by trapping the Molecule Man in a bubble with no molecules. Huh, would you look at that! Molecules Man had no molcules AROUND him to work with them.

3. Molecule Man did not want to lose that fight. And he didn't get distracted.

Again a stupid argument, which ignores so much provided context.
According to some users on these and other boards, Molecule Man subconsciously wanted to lose, since one of the illusions said, that he wanted to be found and caught.

Well, those illusions wanted him to drink the Bullseye water, skin and eliminate Victoria Hand, run away and hide... and he didn't do any of those things either!

http://i.imgur.com/tQa5xPP.jpg

And when he fought the Sentry, he clearly tried to fight back, but couldn't. He was even confused by why he wasn't able to beat the Sentry and then he lost.

And all of that just happened, after Sentry had figured it all out. Molecule Man did destroy the Sentry three times, before the Sentry finally had it all figured out.
Do you actually understand the needed level of power to destroy someone like the Sentry on a molecular and physical level? A 44-people-town level molecule manipulator can not do that. Common comic sense, people.

4. However, I do agree, that Molecule Man in Dark Avengers was weaker than older versions of him.

The problem with the entire topic is, that there are two sides to the argument... There is the side, with only RealityWarper on it.
In RealityWarper's mind Molecule Man was at his maximum power level, because he was able to affect organic matter. And back in the day, when he was more limited, he wasn't able to do that.
But the thing is, that prior to that Molecule Man got captured and put into the Raft, when his power levels were more managable. That's what a bio told us. And even a Molecule Man, who can't control organic matter, would roflstomp every earth-based agent or even superhero, who tries to capture him and put him into a prison.
The established fact later on was, that a mentally unstable Molecule Man had a lower power level overall and ordinary agents and superheroes were able to deal with him. And RealityWarper ignores that completely, because he has this one bio from 20 years ago, which says something else.

Now the other side of the argument is pretty much every Sentry hater ever, who takes all the credit away from his feat.
Listen, if you think that someone like Thor or even the matter manipulatin Silver Surfer would have been able to beat the Dark Avengers Molecule Man... then you're clearly high AF. And whatever you're smoking, I want some of it.
Dark Avengers Molecule Man would have destroyed legions and legions of superheroes. Throw Superman in as well, sprinkle Thanos on top and they would have all died. The needed level of offensive matter manipulation to kill someone like the Sentry is ridiculous. At it would have destroyed every regular high herald ever. And they wouldn't have come back from it, because they're not immortal.

I forgot one last point I wanted to make, which shouldn't be ignored either:

5. Molecule Man wasn't less powerful, just because he had less spectacular feats in Dark Avengers.

Now again for the record: As already established, I do think, that Molecule Man wasn't his old self, but some people (actually just one or two fortunately) try to sell it like since Molecule Man didn't affect the entire galaxy in Dark Avengers, he was obviously muuuch less powerful. That's terrible logic.

In Dark Avengers Molecule Man only had to deal with Avengers, HAMMER, few rockets and the Sentry. These were his obstacles and his performances against those tell literally nothing about his power level. Not even him losing to the Sentry, since Sentry's potential power level doesn't affect Molecule Man in the least. If he had lost to the Silver Surfer, someone who the Molecule Man already easily beat... That would have been another story.

Then there is something else:

http://i.imgur.com/mfJLPPo.jpg

Look at this scan... Sentry punches Thor and the narration states, that the impact of the punch is felt across the entire planet. And that planet had 19 billion residents, so one might assume, that it wasn't a small planet either.

Imagine the narration didn't give us that little bit of nice, extra information. How would you have described that punch? You would have described it as the Sentry punching Thor through a couple of buildings. It would have been much less spectacular. But with the additional information coming from the narration we realize just how powerful the Sentry is and how durable Thor is. A great feat for both of those guys.

http://i.imgur.com/gjax3Aj.jpg

Take a look at this scan. Same writer, but no narration at that point, since Remender had stopped adding the narration at that point.
Sentry punches Thor and knocks him out. Without the narration it seems much less spectacular, but we still know for a fact, that Sentry's punch must have been severe in order to knock Thor out. We know it from past showings and even their older fights.

Imagine Beyonder wouldn't have given us the extra information, that his blast with which he hit Molecule Man with, would have destroyed billions of dimensions. It would have been less spectacular, but it was still clear as day that a blast coming from Beyonder / Molecule Man was quite severe.

http://i.imgur.com/K3O2GMi.jpg

In the fight between Sentry and Molecule Man there was no information giving us extra information on how powerful they were. But is it crazy to assume that they were throwing around vast energies, which could have been capable of destroying quite a bit of existence?
I don't know. That's why I like having narration in comics. The problem however is that the nay-sayers don't even entertain the idea of Molecule Man being vastly powerful. Not his multiversal or even universal self, but come on... Dark Avengers Molecule Man wasn't weak. He just lost to the Sentry, a guy who can resurrect the dead, create life, is immortal and supposedly fought Galactus to a standstill. That's not that bad.

Originally posted by Sharivan
That is that same person who thinks Spiderman is faster than the Silver Surfer

Surfer's agility and combat speed/reflexes generally suck, that is why.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Surfer's agility and combat speed/reflexes generally suck, that is why.

No, it's retarded. Along with combat speed argument.

Silver Surfer has instances where he literally reacts within nanoseconds, and is able to fight whilst flying bazillions of times the speed of light.

The only thing I am seeing from Enzeru is a bunch of garbage, and misinterpreted scans. He sees something completely different than what's noted. Then applies things such as the shockwaves of someone's punches into the category of reality warping.

Who has ignored all of the scans and context Mr. Master has provided.

Originally posted by Sharivan
No, it's retarded. Along with combat speed argument.

Silver Surfer has instances where he literally reacts within nanoseconds, and is able to fight whilst flying bazillions of times the speed of light.

The only thing I am seeing from Enzeru is a bunch of garbage, and misinterpreted scans. He sees something completely different than what's noted. Then applies things such as the shockwaves of someone's punches into the category of reality warping.

Who has ignored all of the scans and context Mr. Master has provided.

It appears you don't understand what he was saying about the shockwaves and reality warping. You've missed the point completely there.

Originally posted by Sharivan
No, it's retarded. Along with combat speed argument.

Silver Surfer has instances where he literally reacts within nanoseconds, and is able to fight whilst flying bazillions of times the speed of light.

Then you really shouldn't post here, as nobody would agree with you about Surfer being even close to Spider-Man in the fighting speed department 😉

Surfer is slow, that's a simple fact. Gets tagged by everyone - including peak humans like Daredevil.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
It appears you don't understand what he was saying about the shockwaves and reality warping. You've missed the point completely there.

He was bringing up an instance of strength when we're talking about reality warping. This is something entirely different than that. They do not compare to each other, and you cannot scale from the other.

Then he tries to say we shouldn't go by the narration, and instead go by the destruction we actually see happen. In a dishonest attempt to say Molecule Man was more powerful here. When we do not see that this is the case.

We do not see Molecule Man manipulate anything beyond what's near him here. We do not see him manipulate anything beyond this town. The narration does not contradict what actually happens.

He is trying to say his interpretation is the correct one when what we know happens, what is narrated to happen, and what we see happens says otherwise.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Then you really shouldn't post here, as nobody would agree with you about Surfer being even close to Spider-Man in the fighting speed department 😉.

Appealing to the majority. A fallacy used by people who can't come up with a proper argument.

Those people are the same kind of fedora tipping idiots as Tom Brevoort, and anything they say is just as wrong.

You are familiar with jobbing? You know, when a fictional character loses to another in some area even when it makes no sense at all?

When Spiderman beats Firelord? When Wolverine hurts Rune King Thor? When anything like that happens, and a much more powerful character bends over for someone who has no right fighting them?

Surfer is slow, that's a simple fact.

Only for those that ignore the stupidity of comic book writing, and its known inconsistencies.

The only way this makes sense is if Spiderman has any feats that show that he is able to fight at quadrillions of times the speed of light or something.

Otherwise, it is garbage.

Gets tagged by everyone - including peak humans like Daredevil.

Case-by-case basis.

Do any of these characters have any instances that show them fighting at bazillions of times the speed of light?

The burden of proof is on you in order to show me that this makes any sense, and isn't the garbage writing that it is.

Originally posted by Sharivan
Appealing to the majority. A fallacy used by people who can't come up with a proper argument.

Those people are the same kind of fedora tipping idiots as Tom Brevoort, and anything they say is just as wrong.

You are familiar with jobbing? You know, when a fictional character loses to another in some area even when it makes no sense at all?

When Spiderman beats Firelord? When Wolverine hurts Rune King Thor? When anything like that happens, and a much more powerful character bends over for someone who has no right fighting them?

You're just sweet, aren't you 😛

That makes you the only non-idiot on the site, then?

So Surfer is jobbing 99.9% of the time, iyo? 😂

And how is that relevant to Norrin simply not being fast, huh? And technically, it was King Thor, not RKT yet.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're just sweet, aren't you 😛

I am not the one trying to say the Silver Surfer is slower than freaking Spiderman.

Pictured: Apparently slower than Spiderman.

That makes you the only non-idiot on the site, then?]/QUOTE]

I didn't say that. I am pretty sure there are plently of people smart enough to realize the same thing I did.

Just take Endless Mike for example. He knows what he is talking about.

Those like yourself on the other hand...

[QUOTE]So Surfer is jobbing 99.9% of the time, iyo? 😂

You sound like one of those people who would unironically bring up that time Norrin was beaten by a bunch of Mexicans, and put in chains.

And how is that relevant to Norrin simply not being fast, huh?

As these instances are completely retarded, and ignore everything that the Silver Surfer has ever accomplished.

And technically, it was King Thor, not RKT yet.

So, a technicality is more important to you than coming up with an actual argument?

Good to know.

This does not change how idiotic it was.

Like it or not, on average Surfer fails to react to shit that Spider-Man literally sees in slow-motion.

And it won't change any time soon...