Shaak Ti vs. Aryn Leneer

Originally posted by Selenial
... Wrong.

I posted the excerpt from the Nar Shaddaa mission, yes, because that's what the "increase in skill" excerpt is talking about. Hence it is relevant.

Furthermore, the text states he can draw on the full power of the Dark side because Kota isn't present.

And no, Galen literally comments on how pathetically weak the Shadow guard was, and how easily he overpowered him with Lightning.

And if he's killing them in four strikes, no, it's not enough to hone or improve his skills.

What's incorrect?

Did you just edit that? I could have sworn you wrote "Kashyyyk" rather then Nar Shaddaa in your last post.

The increase in skill is not in reference to his fight with the Shadow Guard but his handling of the Imperial forces on Nar Shadaa, specifically his ability to dodge through and block blaster fire from a large force ( I.E. his reflexes ).

Yes, but before when he's dueling the Shadow Guard he cannot. We see later on Galen dueling against a Shadow Guard who is even more proficient then the last without trouble because he is able to draw upon that power.

He comments that the Shadow Guard is weaker then one who wears Sith clothing and uses Sith weaponry should be and the is able to overpower him, yes. Then we learn that the SG he just overwhelmed is not even the most proficient of those sent on the mission. It's likely single SG's sent to defend installations like Raxus Prime are on an even higher level. And managing to engage Galen in a force lock for even a brief amount of time is extremely impressive. My point is not to say the SG's are comparable, just powerful enough that Galen is able to hone and improve his skills by facing them.

Where does it say Galen killed the SG's in 4 strikes?

Also in regards to your argument about Juno not allowing PROXY and Galen to duel on the RS, that's blatantly contradicted by the novel.

"The clash and crackle of lightsabers filled her earpiece. She turned the volume down so as not to disturb Kota's sleep. This wasn't the first time she had witnessed a duel between Starkiller and his training droid. They had fought like dervishes during the first days after fleeing the Empirical, the droid obviously helping him let off steam. But for those releases, she wondered if the pres sure cooker of his mind would steadily build up stresses until he exploded.

She hadn't learned, however, to relax during them. Starkiller never lost-which was lucky, because PROXY spoke with disarming openness of his intention to kill his master should he ever find a chink in his armor. What life would be like after such a fatal mishap, she didn't like to think, so for now she tolerated the occasional practice sessions, even if she couldn't enjoy them." - The Force Unleashed.

Originally posted by Selenial
In your passage he takes out Stormtroopers with reflecting bolts, then kills a Royal Guard with ease. In the Nar Shaddaa passage, he does the same to a Shadow Guard. When he talks about his "skills increasing since Nar Shaddaa" he's referring to the Shadow Guard fight, and I was showing you that he didn't use his blade much in that engagement at all, indicating the quote is referring to skill as a whole.

Wrong, actually, she called it his "Prime as a Dark-Sider" which is almost entirely true, since by the time of the Kashyyk mission he was fighting as a Jedi.

And yes, the structure of your sentence indicates you're discussing an increase in skill. Having the word "and" in the statement "he improved considerably in power and skill." means you're saying "he improved considerably in skill." and "he improved considerably in power". Hence you're using incredibly circular logic for half of your statement 🙂

Regardless does it really matter whether it was Galen's increase in technical skill or physical augmentation that allowed him to defeat Vader in a duel?

The very act of defeating Vader places him above his Felucia incarnation as a duelist.

Edit: Wait a minute... That's Sel's argument? That Galen didn't improve either in the Force or technical skill and that Shaak > Vader? Holy f*ck my weewee just grew multiple cancer warts.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Edit: Wait a minute... That's Sel's argument? That Galen didn't improve either in the Force or technical skill and that Shaak > Vader? Holy f*ck my weewee just grew multiple cancer warts.

Yeh.... I'm just not even going to reply to you anymore 🙂

What are you trying to argue then? I'm legitimately curious.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Consider glasses Sel, I just explained to you that he fought three more Shadow Guard besides that in lightsaber combat.

I genuinely can't be ****ed to get the novel out again knowing I'll have this debate with DMB in a day or two, but from my memory the only time the Shadow Guards were even close to him with a blade was the second, who held his own against Starkiller due to his reach and ability to mingle TK in with his dueling.

While this was the strongest of the Shadow Guards, who ambushed him. It's far more comparable to the situation against the first guard, who Galen was put up against in exactly the same way.

But even still, like I said, if this quote refers to Bladework only (which I still disagree with) we have no way of knowing what areas exactly of his skill are improving. Can you honestly prove it's not just his ability to maneuver around the Lightsaber Pike? Could you prove it's nothing to do with his own ability to integrate Force Powers, like the Lightning he used?

It's not actually, Galen fought with the dark side all the way up until his fight with Vader, only at that point letting go of his hate.

*shrug*

Debatable, but I'm not defending AP here. She can reply to you herself.

I am but not exclusively. And on the basis that I was you've assumed I'm suggesting Galen was far from his prime in bladework, and not just as an overall combatant. Which no does not mean his increments were proportional.

So to clarify, you don't think Galen improved dramatically as a duelist? Your wording is confusing, speaking truthfully.

Also I just looked through the chapter. I see where the mixup occurred. You were referring to the quote that his skills grew on Kashyyyk and were somehow attempting to refer it back to Nar Shaddaa. I thought you were referring to the quote with Galen's power growth that is present in the Nar Shaddaa section of the book. My apologies. I am curious why the Kashyyyk quotes has to do with anything that occured on Nar Shadda though.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Also I just looked through the chapter. I see where the mixup occurred. You were referring to the quote that his skills grew on Kashyyyk and were somehow attempting to refer it back to Nar Shaddaa. I thought you were referring to the quote with Galen's power growth that is present in the Nar Shaddaa section of the book. My apologies. I am curious why the Kashyyyk quotes has to do with anything that occured on Nar Shadda.

Because the Kashyyk quote directly says "Since Nar Shaddaa" so if you can evaluate what areas of his skills have changed since Nar Shaddaa, you can evaluate where he improved.

Originally posted by Selenial
Because the Kashyyk quote directly says "Since Nar Shaddaa" so if you can evaluate what areas of his skills have changed since Nar Shaddaa, you can evaluate where he improved.

Ah, fair enough.

Well then throwing away the rest of my responses which were out of context ( aside from the other Shadow Guards being good benchmarks for Galen to hone and improve his skill of course ).

Juno not allowing PROXY and Galen to duel on the Shadow post Nar Shaddaa is contradicted by the novel.

"The clash and crackle of lightsabers filled her earpiece. She turned the volume down so as not to disturb Kota's sleep. This wasn't the first time she had witnessed a duel between Starkiller and his training droid. They had fought like dervishes during the first days after fleeing the Empirical, the droid obviously helping him let off steam. But for those releases, she wondered if the pres sure cooker of his mind would steadily build up stresses until he exploded.

She hadn't learned, however, to relax during them. Starkiller never lost-which was lucky, because PROXY spoke with disarming openness of his intention to kill his master should he ever find a chink in his armor. What life would be like after such a fatal mishap, she didn't like to think, so for now she tolerated the occasional practice sessions, even if she couldn't enjoy them." - The Force Unleashed.

Originally posted by Selenial
I genuinely can't be ****ed to get the novel out again knowing I'll have this debate with DMB in a day or two, but from my memory the only time the Shadow Guards were even close to him with a blade was the second, who held his own against Starkiller due to his reach and ability to mingle TK in with his dueling.

While this was the strongest of the Shadow Guards, who ambushed him. It's far more comparable to the situation against the first guard, who Galen was put up against in exactly the same way.

But even still, like I said, if this quote refers to Bladework only (which I still disagree with) we have no way of knowing what areas exactly of his skill are improving. Can you honestly prove it's not just his ability to maneuver around the Lightsaber Pike? Could you prove it's nothing to do with his own ability to integrate Force Powers, like the Lightning he used?

So to clarify, you don't think Galen improved dramatically as a duelist? Your wording is confusing, speaking truthfully.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Except I don't need to, only that its not excluding saber skill, which is pretty obvious. Nor were the Imperial guards using the same kinds of weapons so its clearly not specific.
I don't believe he improved "dramatically" in anything lol. But some considerable improvement as an overall combatant is clear, mostly in power but evidently skill as well.

Define dramatically.

Because I'd define Dooku level to Vader level as pretty dramatic, yet I'd be roasted alive for saying Shaak = Dooku.

Dooku and Vader are probably on the same level as duelists, tbh.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku and Vader are probably on the same level as duelists, tbh.

Close, imho, but Beni was talking all round.

Originally posted by Selenial
Close, imho, but Beni was talking all round.

lmao 👆

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Say no more. 👆

How is that response even relevant when he's just referring to Beni talking about the way in which they're comparing Dooku and Vader? :/

Like, I mean, it's not even about being overly sensitive just confusion about an out of context and nonsensical response.

Galen wasn't really challanged at all between his duel with Shaak and Vader. He fought only fodder, Proxy and Maris. Fodder is fodder, Maris he stomped, and Proxy was only a challange because he was still weak from redirecting the SD, and he was holding back.

I don't see how that's even comparable to being all but stalemated by Kota and the rigorous training Vader gave him.
Vader might've held back, but he also pushed Galen to his absolute limits. Sparring sessions lasted until Galen passed out from exhaustion.

Obviously Galen was really near to his prime, as far as skill goes, against Shaak.

Originally posted by Selenial
Define dramatically.

Because I'd define Dooku level to Vader level as pretty dramatic, yet I'd be roasted alive for saying Shaak = Dooku.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Galen wasn't really challanged at all between his duel with Shaak and Vader. He fought only fodder, Proxy and Maris. Fodder is fodder, Maris he stomped, and Proxy was only a challange because he was still weak from redirecting the SD, and he was holding back.

I don't see how that's even comparable to being all but stalemated by Kota and the rigorous training Vader gave him.
Vader might've held back, but he also pushed Galen to his absolute limits. Sparring sessions lasted until Galen passed out from exhaustion.

Obviously Galen was really near to his prime, as far as skill goes, against Shaak.

Sure but it's likely he would've improved technically by some margin as he faces varied opponents with different fighting styles, techniques and capabilities over the next year whether it be Shadow Guards or opponents like Chop'aa.

If his skills improved just from fighting some Shadow Guards then yeah, we can expect his increments in saber skills to fairly decent.

EDIT: More to the point though, Felucia is, again, not nearly his prime.