Yoda vs RotS Vader

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He lost because Anakin was better, but his form disadvantage evidently had something to do with it, or Stover wouldn't have noted on it.

Some form of disadvantage is still Stover's interpretation only, and I'd like to tell you, why it doesn't make sense...

And it tends to, but it also frequently uses blocks as well, something it's ineffective at doing against Djem So, ergo a weakness.

Dooku's style is derived from fencing, which, in general, rather redirects the strength of attacks than meet them head on. A fencer alters the direction of the enemies blade rather than meeting it with a "block". And that is what Dooku is shown to do, when he isn't engaging others in saber-locks.

In fact because of that he abandons blocks altogether in his first bout with Skywalker:

"He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength"

And yes against those who employ it sloppily (though when Dooku tries to block Savage, he's thrown on his ass) but evidently not against a refined master like Anakin. Even as early as their fight on Naboo Dooku is struggling to block Anakin, and he becomes fatigued as a direct result.

And here, the novel version is somewhat stupid entirely.

Firstly: Dooku is seen in the movie blocking strikes from Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time at least twice during their duel. I wonder how that should be possible, if Anakin alone has "too much strength" for him.

And, secondly, though perhabs more important: Those guys are using weapon that have no weight. How does one generate momentum (kg*m*sE-1) without mass? The notion of someone swinging a beam of energy around with enough force to make it impossible for somebody else to block that thing is utterly ridiculous.

But even accepting that idea (and I don't see why we should). Dooku held his own against Yoda, who once carried a rather huge chaingun into battle:

If he can parry swings from that little guy, I don't see him much problem with Anakin's strength. 😉

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nephthys running away

It was 2 in the morning in England, you dink.

Originally posted by Nai
Some form of disadvantage is still Stover's interpretation only, and I'd like to tell you, why it doesn't make sense...

Dooku's style is derived from fencing, which, in general, rather redirects the strength of attacks than meet them head on. A fencer alters the direction of the enemies blade rather than meeting it with a "block". And that is what Dooku is shown to do, when he isn't engaging others in saber-locks

Furthermore even when it comes to deflection, there is some manner of meeting your opponent involved, so it stands to reason that if blocks unfeasible for him, turning away his opponents blade would pose some difficulty as well.

And here, the novel version is somewhat stupid entirely.

Firstly: Dooku is seen in the movie blocking strikes from Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time at least twice during their duel. I wonder how that should be possible, if Anakin alone has "too much strength" for him.

And, secondly, though perhabs more important: Those guys are using weapon that have no weight. How does one generate momentum (kg*m*sE-1) without mass? The notion of someone swinging a beam of energy around with enough force to make it impossible for somebody else to block that thing is utterly ridiculous.

But even accepting that idea (and I don't see why we should). Dooku held his own against Yoda, who once carried a rather huge chaingun into battle:

If he can parry swings from that little guy, I don't see him much problem with Anakin's strength. 😉

I'm ok with Nai's interpretation. It is supported by the movies version and is ultimately another reason to reject the book.

Also Dooku struggling to block Anakin's two handed attacks with one hand in those gifs doesn't actually mean much imo.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He lost because Anakin was better, but his form disadvantage evidently had something to do with it, or Stover wouldn't have noted on it.

Stover also mentioned Djem So's weakness of lack of mobility which Dooku used to dropkick Skywalker. So where does it mention Makashi's "weakness" is more disadvantageous than Djem So's? It doesn't.

This is why I keep saying you guys need to read the whole passage in context. The reason Makashi's inability to meet Djem So "head on" is even mentioned by Stover, is to point out that Dooku was tackling Anakin is the wrong way, especially while fending off Obi-Wan as well.

But once he realises this, he drop kicks Skywalker, hence Djem So's own weakness coming into play.

After that though, when it comes to the Anakin v Dooku (1v1), Makashi's so called "weakness" is never once mentioned as a reason for the result.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And it tends to, but it also frequently uses blocks as well, something it's ineffective at doing against Djem So, ergo a weakness. In fact because of that he abandons blocks altogether in his first bout with Skywalker:

"He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength"

Which is exactly how Makashi should defend against Djem So 👆

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And yes against those who employ it sloppily (though when Dooku tries to block Savage, he's thrown on his ass)

Another 2 v 1 situation (which the text mentioned is the situation where Makashi really struggles against Kinetic Energy).

Regardless I'm with Nai here, there's no way a Saber clash could send someone flying through the air like that. It Must have been a combination of a Saber strike + TK (which we see Savage utilize again later against Dooku and Ventress).

In any case your own Savage Respect thread shows Savage has sent Obi-Wan backwards as well with a strike, so that really doesn't prove anything about Makashi.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
but evidently not against a refined master like Anakin. Even as early as their fight on Naboo Dooku is struggling to block Anakin, and he becomes fatigued as a direct result.

He blocks Anakin once or twice, but uses his free hand to hold Anakin at bay with TK (an advantage of utilizing Makashi). But for most the fight he gives ground and deflects side to side, which is what Makashi does best against brute strength.

Remember Anakin drops Dooku with a kick in that fight, not with a Saber strike.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Also Dooku struggling to block Anakin's two handed attacks with one hand in those gifs doesn't actually mean much imo.

Well yeah, that's the whole reason Makashi doesn't generate as much "Kinetic energy", because it's generally a one handed style. He can always use 2 hands if he's getting desperate, and if he still struggles then that's down to Anakin being stronger, nothing more.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm ok with Nai's interpretation. It is supported by the movies version and is ultimately another reason to reject the book.

Also Dooku struggling to block Anakin's two handed attacks with one hand in those gifs doesn't actually mean much imo.

On the other hand Anakin has grown "vastly" in power, so it still stands to reason he'd have struggled with his strength. Heck its visually evident that he did, the question is merely why that was the case.

Anakin loses

Kenobi loses badly

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Stover also mentioned Djem So's weakness of lack of mobility which Dooku used to dropkick Skywalker. So where does it mention Makashi's "weakness" is more disadvantageous than Djem So's? It doesn't.

This is why I keep saying you guys need to read the whole passage in context. The reason Makashi's inability to meet Djem So "head on" is even mentioned by Stover, is to point out that Dooku was tackling Anakin is the wrong way, especially while fending off Obi-Wan as well.

But once he realises this, he drop kicks Skywalker, hence Djem So's own weakness coming into play.

After that though, when it comes to the Anakin v Dooku (1v1), Makashi's so called "weakness" is never once mentioned as a reason for the result.

Firstly if Dooku is incapable of meeting Djem So head on, it stands to reason that it will remain difficult to deflect it, and secondly your assuming Dooku can get away with avoiding the need to block a single one of Anakin's attacks from then on, but that's evidently not the case considering what happens next:

Skywalker was all over him.

The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-Skywalker was getting stronger.

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.

Which is exactly how Makashi should defend against Djem So 👆

Another 2 v 1 situation (which the text mentioned is the situation where Makashi really struggles against Kinetic Energy).

Regardless I'm with Nai here, there's no way a Saber clash could send someone flying through the air like that. It Must have been a combination of a Saber strike + TK (which we see Savage utilize again later against Dooku and Ventress).

In any case your own Savage Respect thread shows Savage has sent Obi-Wan backwards as well with a strike, so that really doesn't prove anything about Mavashi.

2. If TK had been involved it would have been audible, it was not.

3. Kenobi was staggered but not knocked on the ground, despite being less powerful than the Count by a fair margin.

He blocks Anakin once or twice, but uses his free hand to hold Anakin at bay with TK (an advantage of utilizing Makashi). But for most the fight he gives ground and deflects side to side, which is what Makashi does best against brute strength.

Remember Anakin drops Dooku with a kick in that fight, not with a Saber strike.

Well yeah, that's the whole reason Makashi doesn't generate as much "Kinetic energy", because it's generally a one handed style. He can always use 2 hands if he's getting desperate, and if he still struggles then that's down to Anakin being stronger, nothing more.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
A red herring, which weakness is more or less disadvantageous is irrelevant to the fact it remains a weakness.

How's that a red herring when there's a weakness on both sides, but the argument here is that only Makashi's weakness seems to count?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless considering not once does Djem So's lack of mobility seem to detriment Anakin,

Urmmm, how about when he got drop kicked?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I think the answer should be obvious.At least we are now acknowledging it as a weakness, but to assume a simple change in tactics would be enough to negate is wrong.

Well I'm not actually acknowledging it was a full on "weakness", as that word was only mentioned in regards to Djem So's lack of mobility. It wasn't once mentioned for Makashi.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Firstly if Dooku is incapable of meeting Djem So head on,

Huh? He's incapable? So how does he do it then? Just because something is a struggle, doesn't mean it's impossible.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
it stands to reason that it will remain difficult to deflect it,

He seemed to do fine on Naboo tbh. And he did okay against Yoda, given he is the most powerful Jedi.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
and secondly your assuming Dooku can get away with avoiding the need to block a single one of Anakin's attacks from then on, but that's evidently not the case considering what happens next:

I never said that. You'll always need to block the odd attack, but deflection, footwork, and avoidance is how Dooku would handle a Djem So user.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So its evident that despite revising his strategy, he's still being forced to block Anakin's attacks. Something we've been just told he cannot do.In an ideal world yes, Dooku's reality was much more painful.1.

It's almost as if Skywalker was just too powerful for Dooku 😬

Originally posted by Beniboybling

1. Ventress was standing by in that instance while Savage took him on alone.

2. If TK had been involved it would have been audible, it was not.

3. Kenobi was staggered but not knocked on the ground, despite being less powerful than the Count by a fair margin.

1. It's not like Ventress sat down for a round, he had to watch out for both of them.

2. TK makes a sound now? There was a sound as he went flying back, but I was unaware TK had to be audible.

3. Perhaps because Kenobi didn't hit the wall behind him. Dooku only dropped and got disarmed when he hit the wall. So again, what's that got to do with Makashi or Soresu?

Fact is though, there's no physical way a Saber strike to send someone flying through the air like that. Given it's normal for Savage to randomly hit with TK, and given he does the same thing again while striking with his Saber in the same fight, it's pretty evident to me what happened there.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wrong again, he blocks as many as he's seen to redirect, if not more. Though the fact he does at all invalidates your stance that he can get away with deflection only.
And yet Dooku states Makashi cannot block Djem So full stop, not just when using one-hand.

What? Dooku never once states Makashi cannot Block a Djem So attack full stop. You guys are getting completely carried away with that line which is being abused out of context. And a line that doesn't even mention "weakness", and follows up with Djem So actual confirmed "Weakness".

Jeez. Give it up. Dooku and his Makashi can handle strength. He's fought off Yoda, and has handled both Savage and Grievous.

He simply couldn't handle Skywalker. End of.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
How's that a red herring when there's a weakness on both sides, but the argument here is that only Makashi's weakness seems to count?

Urmmm, how about when he got drop kicked?

Well I'm not actually acknowledging it was a full on "weakness", as that word was only mentioned in regards to Djem So's lack of mobility. It wasn't once mentioned for Makashi.

Huh? He's incapable? So how does he do it then? Just because something is a struggle, doesn't mean it's impossible.

He seemed to do fine on Naboo tbh. And he did okay against Yoda, given he is the most powerful Jedi.

I never said that. You'll always need to block the odd attack, but deflection, footwork, and avoidance is how Dooku would handle a Djem So user.

It's almost as if Skywalker was just too powerful for Dooku 😬

1. It's not like Ventress sat down for a round, he had to watch out for both of them.

2. TK makes a sound now? There was a sound as he went flying back, but I was unaware TK had to be audible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQATBFIZ13o&t=1m46s

If Savage had used the Force to knock Dooku down, we would have heard it.

3. Perhaps because Kenobi didn't hit the wall behind him. Dooku only dropped and got disarmed when he hit the wall. So again, what's that got to do with Makashi or Soresu?

Fact is though, there's no physical way a Saber strike to send someone flying through the air like that. Given it's normal for Savage to randomly hit with TK, and given he does the same thing again while striking with his Saber in the same fight, it's pretty evident to me what happened there.

What? Dooku never once states Makashi cannot Block a Djem So attack full stop. You guys are getting completely carried away with that line which is being abused out of context. And a line that doesn't even mention "weakness", and follows up with Djem So actual confirmed "Weakness".

Jeez. Give it up. Dooku and his Makashi can handle strength. He's fought off Yoda, and has handled both Savage and Grievous.

He simply couldn't handle Skywalker. End of.

Right, I believe it is you who should be throwing in the towel friend. 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because one does not negate the other.

Right.. Except you're ignoring one but not the other when you claim Djem So has the form advantage over Makashi.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
If you like, it remains irrelevant.

I'm sorry, Anakin being knocked on his butt with the wind taken out of him for 10 seconds is irrelevant, but what's more relevant is a description of Dooku's struggle against Anakin's blows when he didn't know what form he was using, and when he had to fend off Kenobi as well 😬

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Make the inference, Dooku's inability to properly handle Djem So head on is shortcoming of the form, it is a weakness.

IYO.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm being as literal as Dooku here, evidently he can do it, but far from effectively.He was rapidly fatigued on Naboo, foreshadowing his death in RotS,

Funny I don't remember him being particularly fatigued on Naboo.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
and as far as I'm aware, Yoda does not wield Djem So.

So Makashi can handle powerful blows just not powerful blows from Djem So? Tell me does Djem So make Anakin's blows more powerful than Ataru's?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
More than the odd attack if his duel on Naboo is of any indication, in which frankly he blocks more than he deflects. So it's evidently far from a perfect solution.

I'd question your counting a bit there, as I see far more deflects.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Which nobody is disputing. mmmShe effectively did, "looking out for" not being the same as fending off.

Oh come on.. He was fighting them one after the other, which might be getting a little exhausting for him, and not being able to focus fully on Savage will of course make a difference.

We saw their 1 v 1 during his training and how easily Dooku handled him. You don't honestly think his very limited amount of training amped his Saber skill/strength by that much do you?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless the point is that for whatever reason, Dooku was unable to deflect Savage's attack and forced to block it, in which he failed miserably.Which is distinctly that of a lightsaber, and yes they do, so much so that there are distinctive sounds for Jedi and Sith use of the Force. For example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQATBFIZ13o&t=1m46s

If Savage had used the Force to knock Dooku down, we would have heard it.

I don't have audio right now, so will have to check later. But unless the same sound is made with Every TK hit ever on the show, I'm not buying it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He was launched off his feet, Kenobi has never been anything more than staggered. There is no comparison.

And again you'll have to explain to me how it's even physically possible for a Saber clash to launch someone off their feet. If his blow was really that hard, then Dooku's Saber would have just been forced back onto his face.

You'll also have to explain to me how not one of Yoda's strikes sent Dooku flying through the air. You already mentioned Yoda doesn't use Djem So, because apparently only Djem So's force is a problem for Dooku. But guess what, Savage doesn't use Djem So either. Hmm go figure. Him sending Dooku flying really was a miracle.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
In your opinion, I'm not actually inclined to take it seriously since its supported only by fanon.

You mean kind of like Makashi's weakness? Hmm..

You don't have to take it as fact. I'm just questioning how it's physically possible for a Saber clash to send someone flying through the air. And pointing out that it's a real possibility (given Savage's fighting style) that attack was a combined Saber+TK attack. I'm convinced that's what happened as it makes sense whereas the alternative doesn't. But I'm only asking you to accept the possibility that's what happened. And enough of a possibility to stop using that to lowball Dooku not being able to handle strength, especially when you yourself claim it's only Djem So's strength he can't handle.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
On the other hand Savage sent Dooku flying with a saber strike, did the same against to Ventress, and then once more when enraged to Anakin and Kenobi. So evidently you are wrong. 👆

Wait, wait wait... So you're claiming none of those attacks involved TK now? If so what's the point in bringing up Dooku falling because of Makashi?

You can't have it both ways. Either Savage used TK to send all those combatants flying, which only increases the likliehood he used TK to send Dooku flying as well. OR you admit those other combatants went flying by Savage's saber strikes as well, so it sending Dooku flying has nothing to do with Makashi.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's not the point, the point is he acknowledges it as a general shortcoming, not one specific to him wielding his saber one-handed. And the novel is not there to spoon feed you, the fact that it is not spelled out for you does not mean its not there, again, make the inference.

And yet with Djem So's weakness it is spelled out and spoon fed to us..

If you're admitting it's not spoon fed to us then you're admitting a level of speculation, which as you said the rest of us don't need to accept.

As for the 1 handed thing, what exactly do you think a Saber form does? How exactly would Dooku's 2 handed block be less powerful than Kenobi's 2 handed block? Honestly I'm curious.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Dooku can handle strength despite admitting he cannot, he fought off Yoda who is not a power/Djem So duelist, he handled an untrained Savage who later knocked him on his ass, and he handled power attacks from Grievous that he would later criticise for their sloppiness.

Right, so he apparently can't handle strength providing it's a skilled enough duelist and the duelist is wielding Djem So? And yet you bring up Savage knocking him on his ass.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, I believe it is you who should be throwing in the towel friend. 🙂

I don't know what to say here. I mean you've come up with a very specific weakness Dooku has against Anakin only (pretty convenient) which you've deduced from 1 line in a novel, where:

1. That part of the novel can't possibly be canon anymore
2. The word "Weakness" was never used
3. You're completely ignoring Djem So's weakness (where the word was specifically used)
4. It was a disadvantage in the context of that particular part of the passage, and never once mentioned again in contributing towards Anakin's 1v1 victory.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It doesn't f***ing say anywhere Dooku had a form disadvantage. The words "Disadvantage" or "Weakness" are nowhere to be seen.

What clearly is there to be seen is Dooku having a problem going "head to head" against BOTH of them, but this has no relevance whatsoever to Anakin and Dooku's 1v1 later. None.

Jeez learn to read.

Thor.

1. Look at the quote.

2. Read the quote.

3. Try to comprehend the quote is saying.

Have you done all 3 steps? Good.

Now, what do you have to say?

Just read the name of the thread lol.

Yoda. 😬

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Right.. Except you're ignoring one but not the other when you claim Djem So has the form advantage over Makashi.

I'm sorry, Anakin being knocked on his butt with the wind taken out of him for 10 seconds is irrelevant, but what's more relevant is a description of Dooku's struggle against Anakin's blows when he didn't know what form he was using, and when he had to fend off Kenobi as well 😬

IYO.

Funny I don't remember him being particularly fatigued on Naboo.

So Makashi can handle powerful blows just not powerful blows from Djem So? Tell me does Djem So make Anakin's blows more powerful than Ataru's?

I'd question your counting a bit there, as I see far more deflects.

Oh come on.. He was fighting them one after the other, which might be getting a little exhausting for him, and not being able to focus fully on Savage will of course make a difference.

We saw their 1 v 1 during his training and how easily Dooku handled him. You don't honestly think his very limited amount of training amped his Saber skill/strength by that much do you?

I don't have audio right now, so will have to check later. But unless the same sound is made with Every TK hit ever on the show, I'm not buying it.

And again you'll have to explain to me how it's even physically possible for a Saber clash to launch someone off their feet. If his blow was really that hard, then Dooku's Saber would have just been forced back onto his face.

You'll also have to explain to me how not one of Yoda's strikes sent Dooku flying through the air. You already mentioned Yoda doesn't use Djem So, because apparently only Djem So's force is a problem for Dooku. But guess what, Savage doesn't use Djem So either. Hmm go figure. Him sending Dooku flying really was a miracle.

You mean kind of like Makashi's weakness? Hmm..

You don't have to take it as fact. I'm just questioning how it's physically possible for a Saber clash to send someone flying through the air. And pointing out that it's a real possibility (given Savage's fighting style) that attack was a combined Saber+TK attack. I'm convinced that's what happened as it makes sense whereas the alternative doesn't. But I'm only asking you to accept the possibility that's what happened. And enough of a possibility to stop using that to lowball Dooku not being able to handle strength, especially when you yourself claim it's only Djem So's strength he can't handle.

Wait, wait wait... So you're claiming none of those attacks involved TK now? If so what's the point in bringing up Dooku falling because of Makashi?

You can't have it both ways. Either Savage used TK to send all those combatants flying, which only increases the likliehood he used TK to send Dooku flying as well. OR you admit those other combatants went flying by Savage's saber strikes as well, so it sending Dooku flying has nothing to do with Makashi.

And yet with Djem So's weakness it is spelled out and spoon fed to us..

If you're admitting it's not spoon fed to us then you're admitting a level of speculation, which as you said the rest of us don't need to accept.

As for the 1 handed thing, what exactly do you think a Saber form does? How exactly would Dooku's 2 handed block be less powerful than Kenobi's 2 handed block? Honestly I'm curious.

Right, so he apparently can't handle strength providing it's a skilled enough duelist and the duelist is wielding Djem So? And yet you bring up Savage knocking him on his ass.

I don't know what to say here. I mean you've come up with a very specific weakness Dooku has against Anakin only (pretty convenient) which you've deduced from 1 line in a novel, where:

1. That part of the novel can't possibly be canon anymore
2. The word "Weakness" was never used
3. You're completely ignoring Djem So's weakness (where the word was specifically used)
4. It was a disadvantage in the context of that particular part of the passage, and never once mentioned again in contributing towards Anakin's 1v1 victory.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Thor.

1. Look at the quote.

2. Read the quote.

3. Try to comprehend the quote is saying.

Have you done all 3 steps? Good.

Now, what do you have to say?

The quote is saying Dooku was tackling the dup the wrong way. Once he switched tactics it was Anakin who ended up being drop kicked due to Djem So's confirmed weakness.

Anything else?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Which failed to give him any meaningful advantage in the duel other than giving him a chance to take out Kenobi, so no, it does not outweigh nor negate Anakin's advantage.

WTF? Putting your opponent on his ass with the wind taken out of him for 10 seconds doesn't give an advantage in a duel? Are you high?

Just the fact that it gave him the chance to take out Kenobi is more than enough proof it was very advantageous to Dooku in that duel.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
In Dooku's, lmao.

Dock says it's a weakness? You'll have to underline that part to me as I can't see it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
A selective memory evidently. Towards the end of the fight he is grunting his exertion, his moves become sloppy and his defence poor, leading Anakin to penetrate it by knocking him to the floor. He was fatigued yeah.

So Dooku looking pissed is him being tried now lmao.

I wonder how a tired old man walked away just fine after being drop kicked and choked out..

And sloppy defence because he got kicked? I guess Anakin was tired too then when Dooku drop kicked him in ROTS.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Evidently the way Djem So employs strength makes it harder to counter, otherwise Dooku would have said he can't block powerful attacks in general.I provided instances for Nai in which we see Dooku block Anakin's attacks 6 times.

In the Naboo fight he's giving ground and deflecting almost the whole time. Only uses the odd block. What fight are you talking about?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes but he was still knocked on his ass, all that only makes it less embarrassing and gives grounds to argue it wouldn't happen consistently (which it probably would not) but nonetheless exposes his weakness against those kinds of attacks.

What do you mean? Savage doesn't use Djem So!

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It is, again an audible rumble is used to denote use of the Force in the movies and the animated show. This is a textbook practice ever since the Prequels.

Yes I've listened to a few Force pushes on TCW now, and they seem to almost always have that sound, although there are instances where it is very faint, and others where it's hard to confirm it's there around other sounds.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It wouldn't but then I'm not here to explain basic physics to you.

LOL So a powerful enough lightsaber clash would make someone go flying through the air in physics?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Savage is a power-duelist and that over the head chop he used to knock down Dooku is a classic Djem So move.

Oh wait, so an overhead blow in physics would make someone go flying upwards?

LMAO

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Evidently Yoda just isn't capable of bringing his strength to bear in that manner, something his stature, and the fact he didn't dominate Dooku to the same extent, should make obvious.

Ah right, so it's only overhead blows that Dooku can't handle... Are you not getting tired of making up how Dooku's so called weakness works?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No, that would be stated by Dooku.

Yeah, except he never stated Makashi is weak to Djem So. I get that's hard for you to accept, but facts speak louder than words.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because he hits very hard? And I would accept it if there was an audible indication of TK, there was not.Savage blew away Ventress, Anakin and Kenobi upon becoming enraged and vastly more powerful. So I needn't admit anything tbh.

The audible sound for the TK is probably left out due to the sound of the Saber clash.

You've just admitted that it's about power and not about the form given Savage did the exact same thing to Ventress, Obi-Wan and Anakin.

He may have become more powerful but he did it to the best Soresu and Djem So practitioners combined.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No I'm saying you're stupid,

This coming from the guy who things a really hard Saber clash sends people flying through the air.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
he literally describes the shortcoming of Makashi against Djem So's fighting style but because its not labelled "weakness" in big flashing letters, you are somehow incapable of making the inference. I mean I don't remember Dooku noting he was tired or fatigued in that fight either, so I guess he wasn't?

Well let me refresh your memory:

"He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to the physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him;"

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because Kenobi wields Soresu, the ultimate defensive form, and Dooku wields Makashi, that lacks the kinetic energy to meet Djem So head-to-head. 👆

No actually Makashi is very good at deflecting and handling power blows, as Dooku's demonstrated against Savage, Grievous (who also hits from overhead with massive physical strength), Anakin (during TCW) and Yoda.

Makashi is the Ultimate duelling form. It wouldn't be if it couldn't handle someone strong hitting them from above Lmao

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes as a one-off event that nonetheless demonstrates his weakness against power blows,

Then I guess Ventress, Anakin and Obi-Wan are also weak against power blows 😬

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Where did I say it was exclusive to Dooku against Anakin? Anyway that's all well and good but the only new point I'm seeing here is it's not Canon. Which while certainly true doesn't mean the theme hasn't been carried across, instead I would argue that his performance against Savage and S4 Anakin indicates its still a weakness of his form.

Savage doesn't use Djem So! WTF?

Grievous also gives power blows from above the head. And Dooku handles him just fine.

S4 Anakin only dropped Dooku via a kick. If you love drop kicks, I'd refer you to Dooku's on Anakin in ROTS again.

Funny that S6 Anakin never dropped Dooku, despite Dooku's BIG Weakness.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The quote is saying Dooku was tackling the dup the wrong way. Once he switched tactics it was Anakin who ended up being drop kicked due to Djem So's confirmed weakness.

Anything else?

EDIT: Or do that.

Originally posted by Syndicate

I guess that was much easier for you than an actual rebuttal.

If you can't understand a basic sentence I don't really see the point.