Originally posted by wallman77
Lol this is embarrassing...suddenly WS is a bullet timer? Lol Dead puts 4 shots in 4 different places before bucky can "raise his arm"
Bucky isn't a bullet timer, but he is fast enough to block automatic fire. He's done it multiple times and from different angles, so that argument isn't wrong.
However. Deadshot is a whole different beast from even elite soldiers. Remember Flagg and the other black ops badass soldiers guys were watching Floyd in awe while he demo'd his skills. On top of that, they start at basically a football field away. Floyd will take aim, and try to pop him in the skull. From that distance, I don't think Bucky could block it. And if he could, then Floyd is more than skilled enough to just aim at different body parts in rapid succession. Unlike Cap's shield, Bucky can't hunker down behind his arm.
Originally posted by RobtardWS blocks the shots. He's accurate but guess who stops the bullets. Saying Deadshot wins isn't a fact you dolt. The two have never met. Idiots.
👆Not sure how anyone could argue that DS didn't display 100% accuracy, that was his thing; movie both told and showed us. Morons, I guess.
Still a bit busy these days to debate (came out of semi-retirement).
And I haven't seen SS yet so no spoiler-replies to my comments pls if at all possible (again, too busy to even watch movies/play games anymore).
But "feat"-to-"feat", WS has blocked bullets with his arm from multiple angles and at close range more than once, he has also dodged automatic fire at close/point blank range.
Accuracy is cool and all, but elite soldiers shooting at point blank range should alleviate the accuracy/skill difference between them and Deadshot don't you think? As at point blank, basically once you are able to shoot a weapon at 100% accuracy, how much more accurate can you get? Can DS bend bullet trajectories (ala Wanted)?
Question is, has DS shot and hit anyone with dodging/blocking "feats" equal to WS (aka, his level of defensive precision and agility)?
Also, bear in mind, 100 meters means that DS has about 4 seconds before WS is on him (as WS has shown he can run around 50-60mph).
Not saying WS wins, but just some things to think about.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Still a bit busy these days to debate (came out of semi-retirement).And I haven't seen SS yet so no spoiler-replies to my comments pls if at all possible (again, too busy to even watch movies/play games anymore).
But "feat"-to-"feat", WS has blocked bullets with his arm from multiple angles and at close range more than once, he has also dodged automatic fire at close/point blank range.
Accuracy is cool and all, but elite soldiers shooting at point blank range should alleviate the accuracy/skill difference between them and Deadshot don't you think? As at point blank, basically once you are able to shoot a weapon at 100% accuracy, how much more accurate can you get? Can DS bend bullet trajectories (ala Wanted)?
Question is, has DS shot and hit anyone with dodging/blocking "feats" equal to WS (aka, his level of defensive precision and agility)?
Also, bear in mind, 100 meters means that DS has about 4 seconds before WS is on him (as WS has shown he can run around 50-60mph).
Not saying WS wins, but just some things to think about.
First, watch the flick, you're really not in a position to argue when you only have 50% of the info.
I'd say that it would be easier to block a bullet from "point blank" than it would be from 100 meters, as at PB you have a much better idea where the bullets is going. 100 meters away, how is WS going to know to cover his face or his gut or his left knee, right knee etc. He guesses wrong and that's three bullets in him, as I'm pretty sure an M16 can fire in bursts of three.
If you watch the film, you'd see that DS can put out a lot of rounds in just four seconds with a multitude of weapons; all with 100% accuracy; all in the size of a bullet-hole. He's super-humanly accurate. He literally never misses when he wants to.
The setting of the match simply favors his skill-set.
Originally posted by NibedicusHe can bounce bullets off of surfaces and still get a perfect center of skull head shot. He puts the bullet exactly were he wants to. Are you trying to argue that WS is going to block all his shots with perfect accuracy? Lets say he blocks the first which is likely going to be a headshot. Will he block the next couple of shots perfectly aimed at his limbs, heart, and groin? What about the bullet coming at his skull from a complete different angle than where all the other shots are coming from due to being bounced off a wall? By the way, all these shots are coming within 1-2 seconds (yes, he displayed enough skill to be this accurate with quick shots on both stationary and sprinting targets). He even almost killed Batman within seconds of the encounter starting (Bats was saved btw) with the one and only bullet he'd have needed.
Accuracy is cool and all, but elite soldiers shooting at point blank range should alleviate the accuracy/skill difference between them and Deadshot don't you think? As at point blank, basically once you are able to shoot a weapon at 100% accuracy, how much more accurate can you get? Can DS bend bullet trajectories (ala Wanted)?
In this fight, DS is given an M16 as opposed to a pistol or the wrist mounted gun, which makes it even easier to be quick and accurate for him (not that it makes any difference since he wont miss no matter what he's given as a weapon) not to mention it's a 3 round burst weapon. WS has never encountered anyone with this level of skill and accuracy with firearms. I doubt he'd even block the first bullet nevermind those that follow. He is not a bullet timer. Watch the movie before arguing for a side. I don't think you'd be making the argument at all if you were aware of what Deadshot was capable of.
EDIT: What Rob said.
Originally posted by Robtard
First, watch the flick, you're really not in a position to argue when you only have 50% of the info.I'd say that it would be easier to block a bullet from "point blank" than it would be from 100 meters, as at PB you have a much better idea where the bullets is going. 100 meters away, how is WS going to know to cover his face or his gut or his left knee, right knee etc. He guesses wrong and that's three bullets in him, as I'm pretty sure an M16 can fire in bursts of three.
If you watch the film, you'd see that DS can put out a lot of rounds in just four seconds; all with 100% accuracy; all in the size of a bullet-hole. He's super-humanly accurate. He literally never misses when he wants to.
👆
Once Nib actually sees what Deadshot can do, I have no doubt his opinion will change decisively in Deadshots favor...
Originally posted by Arachnid1
He can bounce bullets off of surfaces and still get a perfect center of skull head shot. He puts the bullet exactly were he wants to. Are you trying to argue that WS is going to block all his shots with perfect accuracy? Lets say he blocks the first which is likely going to be a headshot. Will he block the next couple of shots perfectly aimed at his limbs, heart, or groin? What about the bullet coming at his skull from a complete different angle than where all the other shots are coming from due to being bounced off a wall? By the way, all these shots are coming within 1-2 seconds of each other (yes, he displayed enough skill to be this accurate with quick shots on both stationary and sprinting targets). He even almost killed Batman within seconds of the encounter starting (Bats was saved btw) with the one and only bullet he'd have needed.In this fight, DS is given an M16 as opposed to a pistol or the wrist mounted gun, which makes it even easier to be quick and accurate for him (not that it makes any difference since he wont miss no matter what he's given as a weapon) not to mention it's a 3 round burst weapon. WS has never encountered anyone with this level of skill and accuracy with firearms. I doubt he'd even block the first bullet nevermind those that follow. Watch the movie before arguing for a side. I don't think you'd be making the argument at all if you were aware of what Deadshot was capable of.
EDIT: What Rob said.
👆
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
👆Once Nib actually sees what Deadshot can do, I have no doubt his opinion will change decisively in Deadshots favor...
Yeah, Nibs' a sensible guy open to logic and reason.
Another thing, DS could disable WS' M16 by shooting it, be it damaging the trigger or possibly shooting down its barrel, should the angle present itself, as we know he can repeatedly but rounds all within the size of a bullet hole.
Originally posted by RobtardHe could also just put a bullet through WS shooting/human arm. Good luck using an AR at 100m with his less dominant arm with any accuracy.
Yeah, Nibs' a sensible guy open to logic and reason.Another thing, DS could disable WS' M16 by shooting it, be it damaging the trigger or possibly shooting down its barrel, should the angle present itself, as we know he can repeatedly but rounds all within the size of a bullet hole.
Or he could just put the first shot in Buckys dick, heart, or head for an instawin.
It's 10/10 for him and he could win a different way each of those ten rounds.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
So let me get this straight..As per the OP, both of them are standing 100 yards apart holding fully loaded M-16's...
Deadshot will absolutely raise his gun to fire, and you expect Winter Soldier to block!????
That makes absolutely no sense and you'd know that if you actually thought about it for more than 1 second...
Deadshot's superhuman accuracy is not common knowledge (him being a contract killer is), so Winter Soldier has no reason to think that Deadshot can out shoot him...
The characters fight in character dude...
Both of them will raise their weapons and take aim at one another...
The thing is, Deadshot is far more accurate than Winter Soldier is...
Originally posted by Robtard
First, watch the flick, you're really not in a position to argue when you only have 50% of the info.I'd say that it would be easier to block a bullet from "point blank" than it would be from 100 meters, as at PB you have a much better idea where the bullets is going. 100 meters away, how is WS going to know to cover his face or his gut or his left knee, right knee etc. He guesses wrong and that's three bullets in him, as I'm pretty sure an M16 can fire in bursts of three.
If you watch the film, you'd see that DS can put out a lot of rounds in just four seconds with a multitude of weapons; all with 100% accuracy; all in the size of a bullet-hole. He's super-humanly accurate. He literally never misses when he wants to.
The setting of the match simply favors his skill-set.
Hey, like I said, I haven't seen the movie yet so my position is from a purely logical standpoint. My work has put me in a bad position for my usual hobbies. -_- I miss being semi-retired.
We can always argue logic-for-logic, however. I can just take your word on the "feats" for DS as I might not ever have the time to go the cinema during a major product launch. The fact that I have a few hours today is a miracle, tbh. 😛
What I mentioned were debating points, not arguments on who would win in this fight. Sadly, I can no longer do the protracted debates due to time issues.
As I said, take my logic as they are.
Some points, tho: 100 meters isn't really too far to for one to see, and I don't think WS "guesses" where he will get shot. Like Steve, super soldiers may have an unerring sense for trajectory (as proven by WS's ability to block bullet shots or when he is able to match Steve's shield throw combos as they were pounding on Iron Man).
Bullets travel in a straight line. Being an impossibly-skilled shot has no bearing on where the bullet will go or how it will travel -after- it has been fired. Can DS "fake" a shot and trick WS? Possible. But not at 10/10 in a 4 second window scenario. How about if DS "bounces" the shot off the ground? Don't think bullets bounce off featureless environments, they're more likely to embed themselves unless the ground is made of solid rock/metal. DS cannot curve bullets (can he?). But saying WS won't be able to block gunshots from 100 meters kind of ignores what WS has done as a character (he's blocked shots from 10 meters quite easily).
I see this as a classic Daredevil vs Bullseye scenario. BE never misses, DD is just very good at avoiding objects when thrown/fired.
Also, not saying WS blocks all the shots all the time. I'm saying that he stands a good reason to block several shots and in an out-of-10 matchup within a 4 second window, he stands a good chance (in at least a FEW matchups) to get to DS.
@Nib
Winter Soldier starts this fight holding a fully loaded M-16 just like Deadshot does...
Deadshots superhuman accuracy is not common knowledge, so why on Earth would WS be blocking in the first place?
The characters still fight in character, and in this senario WS is holding a weapon that he knows how to use, so why wouldn't he use it right off the bat?
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
So let me get this straight..As per the OP, both of them are standing 100 yards apart holding fully loaded M-16's...
Deadshot will absolutely raise his gun to fire, and you expect Winter Soldier to block!????
That makes absolutely no sense and you'd know that if you actually thought about it for more than 1 second...
Deadshot's superhuman accuracy is not common knowledge (him being a contract killer is), so Winter Soldier has no reason to think that Deadshot can out shoot him...
The characters fight in character dude...
Both of them will raise their weapons and take aim at one another...
The thing is, Deadshot is far more accurate than Winter Soldier is...
You make some good points. I would actually see WS attempting to shoot at DS.
At 100 yards with no cover, one can argue that neither character could miss (as WS has managed to hit targets thru a wall at that range).
So it comes down to who is the faster draw.
My bet would be on the guy with the bullet blocking robot arm.
😎
Edit. That was me trying to be funny in case you hadn't noticed.
uhuh