Darth Maul vs Satele Shan

Originally posted by SunRazer
I was referring to a broad mastery of the Force, not individual powers, but even then, Vader's greater command of telekinesis could well be described as greater mastery.

Honestly, Traya's master of TK just seems superior to Vader's IMHO; I mean, she essentially doesn't even need to raise a finger to perform most of her feats.

Originally posted by SunRazer
'Twas following Jace Malcolm describing it as Satele "dropping a mountain" on Malgus in Annihilation. 🙂

https://youtu.be/IomiOdc62HQ?t=418

Originally posted by SunRazer
The section of mountain that was destroyed was still pretty good.

It wasn't that big, tbh. I mean, she left a massive dent on a hillside which is pretty good for say a Jedi Knight, but I don't think it's anything spectacular.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Regarding being amped, sure, but she grew vastly following Hope. Given her potential as a descendant of Revan, and the fact that I recall it being stated that she retreated to study after the war, it's pretty easy to imagine that she was growing in power over that time. She retreats to study with Darth Marr in the KotFE period, too, which results in growth and study over 35 years. I'd certainly put that well over the amp received from the lightsaber.

Meh, lightsabers are actually pretty extreme energy sources, tbh. Although I do agree her growth more than made up for the amp... but by how much? Enough to perform the feat again, perhaps less difficulty, but I still don't see that as dwarfing Kenobi.

Originally posted by SunRazer
As for charging up power, she was also pinning Malgus with the Force. I'd say they counteract one another.

From what I recall, she didn't keep him pinned when she charged her second way, just that by the time Malgus recovered she had already sent out the other wave.

Originally posted by SunRazer
We're also forgetting that the fact that Satele can even Absorb a lightsaber blade's energy by Hope alone is incredibly impressive.

When an injured Kylo Ren in such a traumatic state could've blocked lightsaber strikes with his hands, I don't see why that's outside the capabilities of someone more powerful and masterful than him like Maul couldn't do the same. This also doesn't apply to TK.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Around the same time, she calls down a tree in short order whilst engaged in a saber lock against Malgus, which is also pretty good.

She crushed the base of the tree. I'd say Kenobi utterly crushing two durasteel droids without so much as batting an eyelash is better.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Then there's her freezing objects in the midst of a fight with mere looks, which I don't think Obi-Wan or Savage or even Maul have ever managed. Her apparent teleporting is also going to be an asset here. I'm reconsidering whether or not Satele can win, now, but she's not getting curbed ala Obi-Wan.

Just because they didn't doesn't mean they can. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can stun things with TK.

Originally posted by ILS
Shattering a prison cell forged from Beskar > anyway

Just curious, but has beskar in TCW demonstrated the defensive properties of beskar in other sources? I recall Mandalorians being wrecked by blaster shots and lightsaber strikes, but not so much of the armor being impervious to them.

Originally posted by ILS
Shattering a prison cell forged from Beskar > anyway

Never happened.

Originally posted by MythLord
Honestly, Traya's master of TK just seems superior to Vader's IMHO; I mean, she essentially doesn't even need to raise a finger to perform most of her feats.

https://youtu.be/IomiOdc62HQ?t=418

It wasn't that big, tbh. I mean, she left a massive dent on a hillside which is pretty good for say a Jedi Knight, but I don't think it's anything spectacular.

Meh, lightsabers are actually pretty extreme energy sources, tbh. Although I do agree her growth more than made up for the amp... but by how much? Enough to perform the feat again, perhaps less difficulty, but I still don't see that as dwarfing Kenobi.

From what I recall, she didn't keep him pinned when she charged her second way, just that by the time Malgus recovered she had already sent out the other wave.

When an injured Kylo Ren in such a traumatic state could've blocked lightsaber strikes with his hands, I don't see why that's outside the capabilities of someone more powerful and masterful than him like Maul couldn't do the same. This also doesn't apply to TK.

She crushed the base of the tree. I'd say Kenobi utterly crushing two durasteel droids without so much as batting an eyelash is better.

Just because they didn't doesn't mean they can. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can stun things with TK.

Kylo did actually create a barrier to tank Rey's lightsaber strikes, much like the Outlander doing it in the latest KotFE chapter, the junior novel's description of the events pretty clearly point to that and it's consistent with the Visual Guide noting that Kylo's TK defenses are immense.

Meh, Tutaminis still isn't translatable to TK, unless Yarael Poof can ragdoll Starkiller.

Originally posted by MythLord
Honestly, Traya's master of TK just seems superior to Vader's IMHO; I mean, she essentially doesn't even need to raise a finger to perform most of her feats.

Well, if we're going off dialogue files, some or most of that might just be animation bugging. Also, doesn't Vader perform numerous TK feats without gesturing?

It wasn't that big, tbh. I mean, she left a massive dent on a hillside which is pretty good for say a Jedi Knight, but I don't think it's anything spectacular.

Any size estimates?

Meh, lightsabers are actually pretty extreme energy sources, tbh. Although I do agree her growth more than made up for the amp... but by how much? Enough to perform the feat again, perhaps less difficulty, but I still don't see that as dwarfing Kenobi.

She'd perform the feat again without the need for external amplification. That's beyond Obi-Wan, too.

From what I recall, she didn't keep him pinned when she charged her second way, just that by the time Malgus recovered she had already sent out the other wave.

Well, he wasn't able to leap out of the way or anything, and he's screaming whilst still being in place. Seems like Satele held him there to me.

When an injured Kylo Ren in such a traumatic state could've blocked lightsaber strikes with his hands, I don't see why that's outside the capabilities of someone more powerful and masterful than him like Maul couldn't do the same. This also doesn't apply to TK.

Sorry, but numerous Jedi deflect lightsaber blades whilst exhausted or weakened. Absorbing a lightsaber blade is an entirely different prospect and a far superior display of Force mastery. You're not just letting the blade bounce off your hands, you're actually channeling the sheer power of the blade into yourself. It's an incredible showing, and the fact that Satele had 35 years to grow afterwards puts her very high up.

Also, it does apply to TK. Satele's mastery of the Force clearly applies to TK as much as it does to Tutaminis. She can convert that energy.

She crushed the base of the tree. I'd say Kenobi utterly crushing two durasteel droids without so much as batting an eyelash is better.

Nah. Satele was currently strained in a saberlock with Malgus. That justfies her greater effort, and she didn't just crush the tree base, she also yanked the tree her way.

This does remind me - was Obi-Wan doing the same or something similar in his vaunted showing with the trees? Kind of reduces how impressive it is.

Just because they didn't doesn't mean they can. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can stun things with TK.

Obviously they can freeze things. With mere looks? That's a bit different.

She's also equal with Marr, who's probably above Baras, and certainly above Fulminiss, who could disintegrate cities, albeit under suspect and likely ritual-oriented means.

I'll respond later, Nova. BTW, padawans turned Dark Jedi have devastated several cities 👆

Originally posted by MythLord
Meh, Tutaminis still isn't translatable to TK, unless Yarael Poof can ragdoll Starkiller.

If this is aimed at me, I'm just saying that Kylo used TK- not tutamis, deflection or stopping the swing of the lightsaber - to stop Rey's strikes from killing him.

👆

Originally posted by SunRazer
This doesn't prove that he'd wreck at all, lmfao. Satele's more powerful than either of them as well.

Wollf:

Honestly, Traya's master of TK just seems superior to Vader's IMHO; I mean, she essentially doesn't even need to raise a finger to perform most of her feats.

It's true.

No, she doesn't. The "ma look, no hands!" logic is as retarded as it comes.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
No, she doesn't. The "ma look, no hands!" logic is as retarded as it comes.

👆

Lana ****ing Beniko did Tk without gesture.

One better, Lycan, a minor character killed a group of guys without gesturing either.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
No, she doesn't. The "ma look, no hands!" logic is as retarded as it comes.

Vader does it throughout ESB anyway.

Yeah he was legit the first guy to do it in Star Wars.

He also Force chokes a guy from space through nothing but an audio link.

I'm not yet saying Satele wins, but what has Maul done with the Force [other than 'ragdolling' Kenobi] that impresses people so much?

Blowing away an army (albeit with Savage's aid, but we are talking 100+ strong); being able to level a building with a Force scream age 15; gesturelessly manipulating boulders, being more powerful than Savage; he also got cools tats.

Maul pinned Sidious to a wall with TK in an unused scene during their TCW fight. Despite what you think, it is canon