Iron Fist/w Prep vs Batman, Cassandra Cain, & Nightwing

Started by leonidas15 pages

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I get Shari's point, I really do.

But the problem is, as you say, he's established as being XYZ.

He's also established as doing crazy shite. With the internal logic being that he's Batman...its actually written as such (see Galan's scan). So its consistent.

Bats has sooo many examples of him being pretty superhuman, that its established he can do it. He can vanish from Superman's senses. Gotham's senses. Hurt beings he has no business hurting...and not just once or twice, either.

At what point do you cut it off, then?

i get his point--within reason. of course there needs to be internal consistency to some degree, but the medium is fluid. different writers are URGED to give character's their own interpretation. and yeah, bats IS a special character. i had an almost identical debate to this one regarding logan--where do you draw the line for him? so many of his fights and feats don't make sense, yet, over and over again he does the same thing. eventually you are forced to realize the COMPANY--MARVEL itself--sees logan this way and you have no choice but to accept that is the way it is. it may not make sense, i may not like it, but there it is.

batman is in exactly the same boat. and there is literally decades worth of material to back up his showings. again, does it make sense? not always, but that's the nature of the medium and the characters we 'debate'. if batman is portrayed fighting 100 aquaman-level characters in his history, is it still pis? not in my book. to me, that is the company taking a firm and repeated stance on who and what batman is. and since he is the company's character, who the hell are we to say THEY are wrong....?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Super skill is nothing new in comics.

Arcane nerve strikes, rolling with Class 100 punches, simulating super-speed, striking super-hard materials...

"New, more durable suit, Iron Man? No biggie, I trained a lot, my karate is even more formidable now." - Mandy

IF's abilities are largely skill-based, too. So there should be no trouble understanding Batman's capabilities.

👆

Originally posted by leonidas
/thread
Always happy to help. ermmgrin

I knew itwas going to be a crap storm lol anybody saying is losing specially in team fight.

Originally posted by Galan007
Always happy to help. ermmgrin

yeah, well, wait'll shari says your scan is stupid and makes no sense instead of it reiterating how batman has always been viewed in the dcu.

then we'll see how happy you are mister. sneer

Wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last. 😈

Btw, did anyone mention Batman physically contending with --and ultimately defeating-- a Venom-amped DCnU Bane? This becomes even more impressive when we consider the fact that Bane has metahuman stats even without a dose of Venom. 🙂

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But the writers are the ones who...give us feats.

They're also the ones who says things that make no sense, and ignore what happens with stories. It's almost as if there's dozens of different writers with conflicting knowledge and opinions or something.

Otherwise, you may as well just rely on handbooks and stats.

Nope, they aren't reliable because you have got Mjolnir being Mach 32 and it's the same problem as I noted above.

The feats you have posted for Iron Fist....why can't we say the writers have no idea what they're writing about?

As that's arguing author intent. When discussing these things it's best to go with the death of the author. As the author is not infallible, and especially in this case where's there are dozens of them with conflicting knowledge and opinions.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Super skill is nothing new in comics.

It's not an explanation. It's an idiotic attempt at explaining something that has nothing to do with skill. As skill does not let you perform such massively superhuman feats.

Arcane nerve strikes, rolling with Class 100 punches, simulating super-speed, striking super-hard materials...

No, this just showcases how poorly writers understand what skill even is. Karate Kid? Going by everything he has done such as destroying meteorites, and stopping cities form being split by earthquakes?

That's superhuman, and any writer who argues otherwise doesn't know what skill is.

"New, more durable suit, Iron Man? No biggie, I trained a lot, my karate is even more formidable now." - Mandy

Which would make her superhuman because being better at karate does not allow one to do this. This is more along the lines of training so hard they become superhuman.

IF's abilities are largely skill-based, too. So there should be no trouble understanding Batman's capabilities.

What does the chi of Shou-Lao the Undying have to do with " pure skill?" What does mystical martial arts based on using chi is "pure skill?"

This is not something you achieve with "pure skill."

Originally posted by leonidas
planet busting? lol he doesn't have to bust planets to fight the way he does or the characters he does. galan already showed you bats dodging light-based attacks. he dodges lasers all the time....nothing to do with who he is fighting.

Yes, he does in order to even faze these characters. In a showing over another character named Green Lantern, and of which whose energy beams are hilarious inconsistent in terms of speed.

You have to prove that it's even moving this fast in this scene. Ignoring that it's coming from a showing over another character.

are you f****** kidding me? 😂 this from the guy who portrays himself as the final word regarding what is and isn't acceptable in the comic book world?? sigh....

Nope, I portray things outside of showings over characters as the final word on it.

and yet he performs similarly over and over, year after year, against characters WELL above his own power level. just last month (again, as shown by galan) he pulled a disappearing act on a superman level being--gotham. of course, he's done the same to superman himself:

It being consistent doesn't keep it from being consistently retarded. As I already noted Batman's power is that he is popular. The writers are going to favor him even when it doesn't make any sense.

make sense? of course not.

They really, really don't.

At all.

still viable forum feats? of course they are.

No, they're not. You have to prove Batman is actually capable of these things outside his showings over other characters.

and hell, those aren't even his best stealth feats:

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.ca/p/stealth.html

ALL pis?? like all the fights i posted?i could show you 100 scans of his MA ability, nerve strikes to take out grundy-level villains, speed and durability feats way WAY beyond human, but you'd just say they're stupid and hand wave them away.

No, I wouldn't ignore the ones where Batman isn't fighting some other notable character. I wouldn't ignore his feats outside of his showings over other characters. Those are the ones that are the most reliable.

Yet, for some reason you can't understand this.

you asked for scans to support his fights, i've given PLENTY,

No, you haven't. You have given me more showings over other characters.

but you likely haven't looked through them,

I have, and you haven't given me what I asked for. You're ignoring what I am asking for, and providing showings over other characters.

or just don't like them so don't count them.

I don't like them because they mean that Batman is a faster than light planet destroying demi-god.

In what world does that make sense?

a 15 second search will show you literally DOZENS of feats that support the vast majority of his fights. but again, if you don't like them, they wouldn't matter.

So, it should be easy for you to provide feats outside of his showings over other characters? If all it takes is a fifteen second google search. Yet, you have still failed to provide me with what I asked for.

Originally posted by Sharivan
Which would make her superhuman because being better at karate does not allow one to do this. This is more along the lines of training so hard they become superhuman.

Mandy = Mandarin.

Do you even comics, bro? 😛

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Mandy = Mandarin.

Do you even comics, bro? 😛

Then say freaking Mandarin. I don't have encyclopedic knowledge on every comic book ever in order to figure what quote you're bringing up is even referring to just by it alone.

Originally posted by Sharivan
I don't have knowledge on comic book
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

I said "I don't have encyclopedic knowledge on every comic book ever."

Nice try at being a dishonest sack of shit.

So, tell me. Have you read every comic book and memorized every quote every character ever said?

Originally posted by Sharivan
I said "I don't have encyclopedic knowledge on every comic book ever."

Nice try at being a dishonest sack of shit.

So, tell me. Have you read every comic book and memorized every quote every character ever said?

I have.

Originally posted by Sharivan
I said "I don't have encyclopedic knowledge on every comic book ever."

Nice try at being a dishonest sack of shit.

So, tell me. Have you read every comic book and memorized every quote every character ever said?

So, it's only okay when you are the one changing quotes?

Originally posted by Mindset
I have.

I doubt that.

Since that's something I am not even sure is possible. The closest people have come to it is Endless Mike who has cataloged every FF appearance and is going to do the same with Avengers.

That's about as far as I have seen this hobby go.

If there is anyone who has done more?

Well, I am not sure where they find the time.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
So, it's only okay when you are the one changing quotes?

Nope, just pointing out that you're being no better than I was there.

Besides, that was abhilegend. He doesn't count.

Mindset has entered the arena. You are doomed, Shari.

Originally posted by Sharivan
I doubt that.

Since that's something I am not even sure is possible. The closest people have come to it is Endless Mike who has cataloged every FF appearance and is going to do the same with Avengers.

That's about as far as I have seen this hobby go.

If there is anyone who has done more?

Well, I am not sure where they find the time.

I gave EM every comic he has ever read.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Mindset has entered the arena. You are doomed, Shari.

Stiltman don't you have some Wolverine dakimakura you should be busy dry humping?

I had to google that.

I'm sure you have a really impressive Iron Fist pillow collection, you don't need to post pics here 😂

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I had to google that.

I'm sure you have a really impressive Iron Fist pillow collection, you don't need to post pics here 😂

You don't even know what a dakimakura is? Despite being on the internet as long as you have been? How is that even statistically possible?

Originally posted by Sharivan
The databooks don't, and the lowballing doesn't. Pr already got on people's cases for that but you guys are still doing it because the moderators are failing to take action.

Everything canon counts. And handbooks are canon.

Everything.

Not if they're not supported by anything a character has done outside of that particular fight.

Quote that rule. Or shut up.

Otherwise, you have to argue that Batman is faster than light and capable of destroying planets.

Why would anyone think that?

It's one way or another. There's no middle ground.

Your butthhurt has reached new heights.

The team loses, badly.

No, they win. Easily.