I'm still waiting on proof you actually got the email, Ant...
And nah, Skywalker wasn't dominating Dooku, not on an even playing field at least. He had Obi-Wan save him twice, and had to resort to tiring out Dooku whilst simultaneously luring him into a false sense of security, so he can catch him off-guard later.
This is of course not mentiong all the other sources showing the Count and Skywalker are relative equals, until Anakin gets enraged. Holistic portrayel obviously favours Skywalker and he is the Count's superior... but unless he's enraged "Zone-akin" mode, he's not dominating.
Oh yeah, I'm just lying to everyone. 🙄 I posted a scan of it in the VS section.
By "resort to tiring out Dooku," I assume you mean "completely dominate Dooku to where he's about to lose consciousness." If so, then yeah. 😂
It's no coincidence that the main opponents to the Anakin Brigade are people like Wollf or Ziggy.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The contents and choreography of the fight between the book and the movie are at odds, but Anakin winning by drawing on his rage isn't. It's clearly what happens in the movie as well as the book. Theres no contradiction.
All aboard the Nephthys train. Destination: double-standard island. 👆
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh yeah, I'm just lying to everyone. 🙄 I posted a scan of it in the VS section.By "resort to tiring out Dooku," I assume you mean "completely dominate Dooku to where he's about to lose consciousness." If so, then yeah. 😂
It's no coincidence that the main opponents to the Anakin Brigade are people like Wollf or Ziggy.
I actually wanna wank Skywalker, but I also wanna wank Dooku... So I just let the two go hand-in-hand 🙂 👆
Also, he legitimately says in that email he thinks it isn't about how well they fight, lmao. So it has no significance here.
And I love how you cherry pick parts of the novel that suit you, while ignoring the context that leads up to them.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku figured it out prior to the assault. That's enough for any normal combat situation.
He figured it out while fighting off Anakin and Obi-Wan, I would hardly call that normal.
[QUOTE]
Dooku was using more power to handle Skywalker's attacks than he did throwing Kenobi against a wall. He was fine.
He only needed a fraction of his power to push Kenobi while the fact that he needed to regain his energy implies that he lost a little more energy because of the trap.
By seizing advantage of the droid's saving them. 😬 If the droids weren't there, he was dead.
Yes the droids distracted Skywalker, fair enough but Obi-Wan still dismantled the droids before Dooku was making his move against Skywalker.
Again, after escaping Skywalker's deadly assault by using the droids. He didn't defeat Skywalker on fair grounds. He got the droids to distract him and then landed a kick. That's not indication of superiority or parity.
Dooku kicked Anakin after the droids were dismantled but in the movie Dooku also takes out Anakin and there de droids only targeted Obi-Wan so it doesn't really matter anyway.
I recall an interview with Gillard in which he rejects the notion he was considering Vaapad for the fights.
http://movieweb.com/star-wars-episode-iii-plot-spoilers/
So Gillard didn't consider Vaapad in that fight, what does it matter? Windu's fighting style didn't change, it was the mental aspect of Vaapad which allowed him to keep up with Sidious. That mental aspect has little to do with the fighting choreography which Gillard was responsible for. The working of Vaapad is explained in the RotS novel (which George personally approved and edited) and in that source it's clearly expressed that the circumstances involving the fight allowed Windu to sink deep in Vaapad.
BTW, I love how you're bashing me for circumstances, but your argument rests on droids intervening and a desperate kick from Dooku. Pathetic.
Did I do something wrong? I see no reason for you to suddenly start insulting me, it isn't going to strengthen your arguments nor is it going to affect my argumentation.
To repeat, if not for the droids, Dooku was dead. On neutral grounds, there wouldn't be droids. In other words, Dooku would be dead in a brutal fashion.
Yes, because Obi-Wan was there to help Anakin.
Originally posted by MythLord
I actually wanna wank Skywalker, but I also wanna wank Dooku... So I just let the two go hand-in-hand 🙂 👆Also, he legitimately says in that email he thinks it isn't about how well they fight, lmao. So it has no significance here.
And I love how you cherry pick parts of the novel that suit you, while ignoring the context that leads up to them.
That's within the levels themselves. 😬
Yawn. I'm well aware of what transpired in the fight.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Cool.That's within the levels themselves. 😬
Yawn. I'm well aware of what transpired in the fight.
Yeh, so wank Dooku to being Mace+ and have Anakin wreck Mace 🙂
But in the email he sent you, he says it isn't just how well they fight, it's how much they've learned. So I take it as being technical skill, innate talent and adroitness with the blade, experience etc.
Good to know mmm.
Back.
Your argument doesn't really make a lot of sense, sorry. I'm not insulting you, by the way. Just your reasoning in this particular discussion.
First, let's address the form trick. Yes, there's no disputing that Dooku was initially unprepared for Skywalker and Kenobi changing their stances.
And only then did Dooku understand that he'd been suckered.
Skywalker's Shien ready-stance had been a ruse, as had his Ataro gymnastics; the boy was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen. His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head. Especially not while also defending against a second attacker.
It was time to alter his own tactics.
He dropped low and spun into another reverse ankle-sweep-the weakness of Djem So was its lack of mobility-that slapped Skywalker's boot sharply enough to throw the young Jedi off balance, giving Dooku the opportunity to leap away- Only to find himself again facing the wheel of blue lightning that was Kenobi's blade.
Dooku decided that the comedy had ended. Now it was time to kill.
Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades-and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.
Kenobi had become a master of Soresu.
Dooku found himself having a sudden, unexpected, overpowering, and entirely distressing bad feeling about this...
His farce had suddenly, inexplicably, spun from humorous to deadly serious and was tumbling rapidly toward terrifying. Realization burst through Dooku's consciousness like the blossoming fireballs of dying ships outside: this pair of Jedi fools had somehow managed to become entirely dangerous.
These clowns might-just possibly-actually be able to beat him.
No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice.
He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall, but Dooku didn't have time to enjoy it.
Skywalker was all over him.
However, as shown in the text, while Dooku wasn't prepared for the start, he was expecting Skywalker's Djem So with the attack relevant to this debate. Prior in battle, he even changed his tactics to specifically handle against it. Your argument revolves around the notion that Dooku's kick against Skywalker was indication of them being peers. This theory is laughable because it ignores both the context of how Dooku did this, and what happened directly before and thereafter.
He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker, and Dooku decided that under these rather extreme circumstances, it was at least arguably permissible for a gentleman to cheat.
"Guards!" he said to the pair of super battle droids that still stood at attention to either side of the entrance. "Open fire!" Instantly the two droids sprang forward and lifted their hands. Energy hammered out from the heavy blasters built into their arms; Skywalker whirled and his blade batted every blast back at the droids, whose mirror-polished carapace armor deflected the bolts again. Galvened particle beams screeched through the room in blinding ricochets.
Kenobi reached the top of the stairs and a single slash of his lightsaber dismantled both droids. Before their pieces could even hit the floor Dooku was in motion, landing a spinning side-stamp that folded Skywalker in half; he used his last burst of dark power to continue his spin into a blindingly fast wheel-kick that brought his heel against the point of Kenobi's chin with a crack like the report of a huge-bore slugthrower, knocking the Jedi Master back down the stairs. Sounded like he'd broken his neck. Wouldn't that be lovely?
So, Skywalker was explicitly dominating Dooku in a one-versus-one combat. There's no disputing that. When Kenobi returned to the fight, Dooku recognized that there was absolutely no chance of a fair victory, so he ordered his droids to open fire. He honestly had no chance against Skywalker either though, as made clear by the fact all he could do is barely defend himself against Anakin's fury. The droids spared him from Skywalker's assault, presumably allowing him to recover. Just as the final droid was destroyed, Dooku attacked Skywalker, suggesting it wasn't a fair attack. Also, not that the text said that Anain "whirled," suggesting he wasn't even facing Dooku when the attack happened. Plus, Dooku wouldn't have been able to even launch said attack unless he cheated (and even he claims he cheated, so that's not arguable). Besides, a kick is not indication of lightsaber parity anyway.
In other words, when they were put in direct combat, Skywalker dominated the scene. Dooku fared better against Yoda than he did against Skywalker, based on their respective performances in the adult novelization. Against Yoda's assault, Dooku was never teetering on unconsciousness. Hell, against Skywalker, he wasn't even able to strike back. That's how overwhelming Anakin's attack was. Sure, Dooku got a cheap shot, but that's exactly what it was: a cheap shot. Skywalker's a tier nine duelist. Dooku's a tier eight duelist. Their fight shows as much.
In regards to Windu, I have no interest arguing personal opinion on what Gillard or Lucas means, or your interpretation of Vaapad.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Sunrazer,When creating a circle-jerk thread with groupthink ambitions, don't expect that all is fine and dandy. You have presented some of your delusions in front of everyone, and if you're to carry on, I rather expect you to be in a position to explain them - yes that means answering criticisms too. Now I understand the desire to duck opponents outside your weight class, but it would be rather refreshing if you just admitted there are certain arguments you don't want to make, when certain imposing figures are looming over them. It would also be nice if you admitted I have qualities you have yet to understand, much less apply them yourself. The first is the ability to apply context with usage of quotes contained in literature - for this reason Caedus is not stomping a Katarn-level combatant within seconds, and theres is nothing to suggest he can do so - it's rather the opposite. The next is to understand what is Canon and what is not, why it is important to only use canon information in discussions.
*Yawn*
