Originally posted by SunRazer
Desperate? You email every author and stunt coordinator you can, lmfao.I don't need to be desperate, because Avellone's opinion can be taken with a grain of salt, just as Karpyshyn's can. You know what's desperate? Dismissing one author's quote in favor of another solely because it supports your point, lmfao.
Every author's opinions on battles is able to be "taken with a grain of salt". I don't go up to Bart, ask for his opinion on a duel and then take it as canon. Authors aren't canon sources for versus battles, I don't get why people insist on using them as such. Karpyshyn even says:
"I'm not any kind of official expert or authority on Star Wars. I wrote some books for them, but I don't get to say what is or isn't canon or official or anything like that. [...] That's why I'm reluctant to answer questions like this; because even with all these caveats it's inevitable that fans will give my opinion more weight than it's worth. So, to sum up, I told you my opinion, but it doesn't have any real weight, importance or authority."
Now that doesn't go for all author statements, if someone's willing to clarify if something is a Nexus or not, if a character progressed through their source or not, or if they wrote their character to be capable of X, Y, or Z that's perfectly acceptable imho. Asking people who haven't written content for a decade to comment on characters that have been capped and rewritten since then really isn't steady ground for any kind of canon statement. Like seriously, when Avellone was writing for Kotot and by extension Revan, the public consensus was that Revan and the Exile were Sidious and Yoda tier respectively. The novel and SWTOR changed that at least somewhat, as did more detailed explorations of characters, but it's important to remember that it was then that Avellone was writing and actually creating for Star Wars 😬
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Avellone didn't create Revan you retard. 🙂
But yeah, his opinion isn't official, and contradicted by Drew's, Revan dies in a good fight.
Stay in school, kids.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He created Meetra and Traya to be weaker than him, so...
They were making Kotor II before the original had even released, let alone the follow up material that Avellone likely hasn't even read. His original intentions are irrelevant. The Ancient Sith have since been explored and obviously can't move planets with their strength, so no one cares what he says about that, because he's not a canon source and never wrote said characters.
I don't get what's so difficult to accept when the authors themselves don't think their opinion is worth more than anyone else.
>Avellone says KOTOR Revan could kick Meetra and Traya's ass at the same time.
>Avellone says that even if Meetra somehow severed Revan from the Force he'd still beat her
>Drew writes Meetra to not be remotely comparable to Revan
>Traya practically verbally sucks Revan's dick talking about how powerful he is all throughout KOTOR II, considering him to basically be the embodiment of power
>Meetra says Mando Wars Revan>Meetra or Traya
>Darth Revan did far more with Malachor's nexus than Traya ever did
>Darth Revan, on top of the opinions of both the characters and writers suggesting him to possess more power than Traya, also possesses more knowledge than her, having learned everything he could from her as a Jedi, claiming the malachor archives which is where Traya's Sith knowledge came from, and learning much more past that point, such as the transcript for the greatest Sith ritual ever attempted.
Huh, it seems almost as if there is a consensus between writers, characters, and established lore in the continuity that even pre-novel Revan is above Traya or Meetra.
The counters to this notion are the Drew quote supposedly saying Meetra can outduel Revan, however this fails for multiple reasons. First of all, he says a definitive answer can't be given, his statement isn't even an absolute ("probably"😉, and he was only referring to technical skill when there are a myriad of other factors that play into dueling (such as experience, tactical ingenuity, physicality, and Force power), so using that quote to either claim Meetra outduels Revan or claim that it contradicts Avellone's quotes thereby making both of them invalid is unfounded.
The other argument is that author opinions shouldn't hold weight and that authorial intent doesn't matter in regards to the legitimate published material, however by that same token the KOTOR II cut content doesn't mean shit either since the arguments for that being legitimate are authorial intent (which also counts for writer's explaining their own works) and the notion that G-canon guidelines get passed down to C-canon (George's statements are counted as G-canon so by that same token author statements of C-canon works would also fall into C-canon). And also by the line of thought that authorial intent/positions not expressed in the work don't matter, there is no excuse for dismissing Meetra blatantly admitting inferiority to Mando Wars Revan.
Pretty much everything in the lore points to pre-novel Revan being above either Traya or Meetra, and there doesn't seem to be anything concretely dispelling that notion.
DMB, Drew saying a definitive answer can't be given in regards to a lightsaber duel between Meetra and Revan contradicts Avellone doing just that, it's not rocket science. Meetra's showings also sufficiently suggest she could pose a significant threat to him in this regard.
On topic the only thing that's really been established is Revan's considerable Force superiority to the Exile, and I'm failing to see how Traya having a high opinion of Revan means she would trash him in the Force. Whereas if we follow the logic that Traya is in fact the Entity, then she too should be a significant threat to him in this regard, something also supported by her feats. Collectively therefore they have a pretty good chance of taking him down, and it's certainly not a stomp. Irrespective of Avellone's opinion on the matter.
And on the topic of authorial opinions, I don't believe anybody is advocating a complete dismissal of them as evidence (though under no circumstances are they the final word on such debates, that's just ludicrous.) Merely pointing out that in terms of the rules of canon and continuity they are protected by the square root of jack shit, therefore their legitimacy can be brought into question, whenever and wherever, and the onus is on you to argue their reliability. In this case Avellone's opinion being awfully circumspect.