Darth Vader vs Gethzerion

In before "Tionne Solusar wrote that one".

Anyways, the Vader quotes wouldn't apply to Gethzerion, who likely relies on Dathomir for her powers.

Can't see Vader dominating Luke in the same way, tbh. It was through eldritch spells, but could Vader defend against those himself?

Luke couldn't even move an AT-ST lodged on a wall, years after the events of TCoPL, kek. Jax Pavan honestly has better feats than Luke did as of that time, and pre-prime Vader dominated him with utter ease.

Gethzerion's level of domination is far more than just ragdolling, though.

She also killed a hundred soldiers with a gesture. Seems beyond Vader's abilities.

mmm

Originally posted by SunRazer
Gethzerion's level of domination is far more than just ragdolling, though.

She also killed a hundred soldiers with a gesture. Seems beyond Vader's abilities.

Starkiller Force pushed like a hundred or so soldiers at once; it doesn't seem like much more of a stretch that he could've just killed them by breaking their necks or something.

By raising a finger and raking it in the air? I doubt it. After all, Vader's fought armies several times, and being able to just kill them all with a gesture would be extremely helpful for him each time, but he never did it.

@Moon/Nova/Sun:

And Vader wasn't trying to outright kill Jax either, and again, it was decades before miniscule-to-substantial gains in power. Luke also has zero knowledge on esoteric socery so that certainly didn't help out at all attack. It was also on a potent dark side nexus, which logically, should have further hindered his ability to call on the Force.

Killing Forceless foes, is superior to pulverizing/disegnerating Force sensitives with their shields up?

It's superior when you consider that Vader never managed it despite the numerous times that he found himself in the same situation.

Vader rarely outright abuses Force powers when he feels doesn't have to, though.

Crushing non-Force sensitives shouldn't be anything for a peer of someone who has utterly obliterated half a 150 meter frigate while erecting barriers powerful enough to deflect the heat of stars. Even 1/8 that amount of power, is enough to phuck up 100 Stormie's.

Yeah, by that logic Gethzerion is above Yoda, Luke, and even Abeloth.

It's difficult to consistently apply the "they didn't use X when it was helpful, so they probably can't" argument. I don't know how to square this in-universe.

It'd work if TFU was anywhere near the sort of medium that TCoPL was. I mean, freaking Shaak Ti & Maris Brood was imbalancing planets there, lol. Paratus was manipulating thousands of droids, etc. - everything is exaggerated there.

And Vader had every reason to abuse his powers in those instances, lol.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, by that logic Gethzerion is above Yoda, Luke, and even Abeloth.

It's difficult to consistently apply the "they didn't use X when it was helpful, so they probably can't" argument. I don't know how to square this in-universe.

Well, it's not a consistent argument, true, but Vader's constantly in that situation and doesn't do it even when he's driven to his brink. Yoda's never driven to his brink by armies before, Luke's not a valid case since he's so inconsistent and Abeloth sub-consciously disintegrated a city and all the Sith inside.

Does that mean Galen Marek is massively above Vader too? But they have an intense fight - and this is Vader before his prime. How does that work?

Not following you. Vader has pushed armies before, he just hasn't killed them through internal telekinesis/Choke with a mere finger rake.

Starkiller has legit disentergated armored Stormtroopers though, that is vastly above simply killing their unprotected insides, KEK.

Again, TFU is the same source where Shaak Ti and Maris ****ing brood are influencing the Force alignment of entire planets and their populaces.

Isn't it circular to declare Shaak and Maris to be weak in spite of feats to the contrary, because you've already decided that the evidence ought point to their being weak?

Or...is it sexist?

Great feat for them then. After all, they were challangeing Galen, who was stated to be, up there with the top Force sensitives; so it makes absolute sense.

In other words; what happened, happen. I'm not going to cherry pick sources because we feel the need to cherry pick.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Isn't it circular to declare Shaak and Maris to be weak in spite of feats to the contrary, because you've already decided that the evidence ought point to their being weak?

Or...is it sexist?

Nope. I'm simply talking about how sources portray characters differently. There's a lot of exaggerated ones out there, and TFU is one of them (KotOR II, TOR, OCW, DE etc. are all worth mentioning as well). The likes of TCW have more subdued portrayals, etc.

Even provided that Shaak grew quite substantially since RotS (which I find hard to imagine anybody doing in exile), I just can't justify her affecting planetary Force alignments if she was portrayed in another source, ie. under Luceno or Stover's pen. In other sources, it takes the prolonged presence of an entire Jedi/Sith Order, or the presence of somebody like Palpatine to cause such alignment imbalances.

I mean, if we're blindly following feats, Kazdan Paratus, Maris Brood, etc. are all more powerful than Obi-Wan Kenobi and even Darth Maul, never mind how Shaak Ti compares to them.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Great feat for them then. After all, they were challangeing Galen, who was stated to be, up there with the top Force sensitives; so it makes absolute sense.

In other words; what happened, happen. I'm not going to cherry pick sources because we feel the need to cherry pick.

Great. Kazdan Paratus & Maris Brood > Maul in Force power confirmed.