Dave Filoni on Ahsoka Tano vs Darth Vader / The Emperor

Started by Beniboybling36 pages

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Hey Kanan overpowering Maul in seconds, whereas Ahsoka didn't in over a minute, doesn't exactly speak well of Ahsoka's abilities either!
Don't try it Thor. ❌

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why should no other factors apply in a decision like that? :/

It seems illogical to simply discard all other factors.


What other factors, Kanan and Ashoka being thrilled at the prospect of Maul spending more time whispering in Ezra's ear?

If you watch the scene in its proper context - divorced from the petty rivalries of this forum- only one conclusion can be logically drawn, and it's so obvious that I'm stupefied people are really debating it:

- Maul gets on the elevator with Ezra, Kanan pushes him aside.
- Kanan and Ezra reach the top and get attacked by the Inquisitor.
- Just as Ezra is about to be killed, Maul jumps in and drives the Inquisitor away

At this point Maul proposes they split up to divide the Inquisitor's forces, and he should go with Ezra because "it's the logical choice", Kanan and Ashoka clearly want to protest, but they can't. They relent. Why? Because they know it's true.

Why is it true? Because it was just proven moments ago[/]. Ezra is obviously the weakest of the group, so he requires the strongest of the group to protect him. Which Maul just did.

Kanan and Ashoka clearly know Maul is very sneaky and dangerous, and is trying to twist Ezra against them, but despite that they relent and let Maul have his way for the moment. Now why would they do that? It's because they know they [i]don't have a choice.

The reason is plain as day: There are 3 Inquisitors. If they split up into one pair and one flying solo, and the pair happens to attack Ezra/Kanan or Ezra/Ashoka, then Ezra is going to get killed. Just like he was about the get killed before Maul jumped in.

Only him being teamed up with the strongest, Maul, could balance the team out and allow Ezra to survive.

It's the logical choice. The only logical choice.

Friend, that's only sufficient proof that Kanan wasn't strong enough to defend Ezra, whereas Maul evidently was, but on what basis are you assuming that Ahsoka wouldn't be able to?

Originally posted by Unbowed
What other factors, Kanan and Ashoka being thrilled at the prospect of Maul spending more time whispering in Ezra's ear?

If you watch the scene in its proper context - divorced from the petty rivalries of this forum- only one conclusion can be logically drawn, and it's so obvious that I'm stupefied people are really debating it:

- Maul gets on the elevator with Ezra, Kanan pushes him aside.
- Kanan and Ezra reach the top and get attacked by the Inquisitor.
- Just as Ezra is about to be killed, Maul jumps in and drives the Inquisitor away

At this point Maul proposes they split up to divide the Inquisitor's forces, and he should go with Ezra because "it's the logical choice", Kanan and Ashoka clearly want to protest, but they can't. They relent. Why? Because they know it's true.

Why is it true? Because it was just proven moments ago[/]. Ezra is obviously the weakest of the group, so he requires the strongest of the group to protect him. Which Maul just did.

Kanan and Ashoka clearly know Maul is very sneaky and dangerous, and is trying to twist Ezra against them, but despite that they relent and let Maul have his way for the moment. Now why would they do that? It's because they know they [i]don't have a choice.

The reason is plain as day: There are 3 Inquisitors. If they split up into one pair and one flying solo, and the pair happens to attack Ezra/Kanan or Ezra/Ashoka, then Ezra is going to get killed. Just like he was about the get killed before Maul jumped in.

Only him being teamed up with the strongest, Maul, could balance the team out and allow Ezra to survive.

It's the logical choice. The [b]only logical choice. [/B]

It is rather plain and obvious to see. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being reasonable due to personal bias IMO.

I think its a reasonable conclusion to draw, I'm merely contesting that its indisputable.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes but What External factors? The ones not given to us or mentioned or even implied. And take them over the more clear and direct implication.. For reasons..

The ones that logically exist like Maul knowing the layout of the temple better then the Jedi.

Occam's razor.

Originally posted by Unbowed
What other factors, Kanan and Ashoka being thrilled at the prospect of Maul spending more time whispering in Ezra's ear?

If you watch the scene in its proper context - divorced from the petty rivalries of this forum- only one conclusion can be logically drawn, and it's so obvious that I'm stupefied people are really debating it:

- Maul gets on the elevator with Ezra, Kanan pushes him aside.
- Kanan and Ezra reach the top and get attacked by the Inquisitor.
- Just as Ezra is about to be killed, Maul jumps in and drives the Inquisitor away

At this point Maul proposes they split up to divide the Inquisitor's forces, and he should go with Ezra because "it's the logical choice", Kanan and Ashoka clearly want to protest, but they can't. They relent. Why? Because they know it's true.

Why is it true? Because it was just proven moments ago[/]. Ezra is obviously the weakest of the group, so he requires the strongest of the group to protect him. Which Maul just did.

Kanan and Ashoka clearly know Maul is very sneaky and dangerous, and is trying to twist Ezra against them, but despite that they relent and let Maul have his way for the moment. Now why would they do that? It's because they know they [i]don't have a choice.

The reason is plain as day: There are 3 Inquisitors. If they split up into one pair and one flying solo, and the pair happens to attack Ezra/Kanan or Ezra/Ashoka, then Ezra is going to get killed. Just like he was about the get killed before Maul jumped in.

Only him being teamed up with the strongest, Maul, could balance the team out and allow Ezra to survive.

It's the logical choice. The [b]only logical choice. [/B]

As Beni mentions Ahsoka is just as viable a choice. I'm not saying Maul's strength wasn't A factor in the decision but I AM saying it wasn't the ONLY factor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Occam's razor.

I don't shave quan.

It's sad that I have to say it but the above is a joke people.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I don't shave quan.
Neither do I, amigo.

Maul was clearly the fighter most effective against the Inquisitors due to his ruthless and overwhelming fighting style and willingness to kill, but as it relates to who the overall superior combatant between Ahsoka and Maul are, I don't think how each of them fared against the Inquisitors matters too much. If you judged who's the best solely by Tano's and Maul's fights with the Inquisitors, you could come away with the conclusion that Maul is well above Tano, but that was proven to be false when they actually fought each other.

Tano left the fight not Maul. Maul ended up taking out Qui in APM but it didn't happen in ten seconds from the start of their fight.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Maul was clearly the fighter most effective against the Inquisitors due to his ruthless and overwhelming fighting style and willingness to kill, but as it relates to who the overall superior combatant between Ahsoka and Maul are, I don't think how each of them fared against the Inquisitors matters too much. If you judged who's the best solely by Tano's and Maul's fights with the Inquisitors, you could come away with the conclusion that Maul is well above Tano, but that was proven to be false when they actually fought each other.
👆

Ultimately what it comes down to whether the reasoning behind Tano and Kanan accepting Maul's proposal aligns with the reality of how a fight would go down between them.

However, looking at the various fights with the Inquisitors' I'm feeling it lends strong credence to the notion the planet as a nexus, I might post some gifs later.

EDIT: Also did you get my PM?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Tano left the fight not Maul. Maul ended up taking out Qui in APM but it didn't happen in ten seconds from the start of their fight.
It happened in 30 yeah, Maul's duel with Ahsoka was at least twice as long, if not longer. 👆

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Friend, that's only sufficient proof that Kanan wasn't strong enough to defend Ezra, whereas Maul evidently was, but on what basis are you assuming that Ahsoka wouldn't be able to?

On the basis that the Jedi pair would have resorted to anything, had it been a viable option, rather than let Maul have the chance to bring Ezra even closer under his wing.

The fact that neither of them proposed pairing Ashoka up with Maul speaks volumes. The choice was either Ezra dies or he goes with Maul.

@Beni: Yeah I did, imma have to rewatch the episode / sequences later to get a fuller picture on how long the fight was

Originally posted by Beniboybling
👆

Ultimately what it comes down to whether the reasoning behind Tano and Kanan accepting Maul's proposal aligns with the reality of how a fight would go down between them.

However, looking at the various fights with the Inquisitors' I'm feeling it lends strong credence to the notion the planet as a nexus, I might post some gifs later.

EDIT: Also did you get my PM?It happened in 30 yeah, Maul's duel with Ahsoka was at least twice as long, if not longer. 👆

Maul fought Qui for much longer than 30 seconds. Hell, he dueled with both and Kenobi far longer than 30 seconds. This isn't about forgetting about the totality of their duel to skew the timeframe to benefit your pro Tano stance.

Originally posted by Unbowed
On the basis that the Jedi pair would have resorted to anything, had it been a viable option, rather than let Maul have the chance to bring Ezra even closer under his wing.

The fact that neither of them proposed pairing Ashoka up with Maul speaks volumes. The choice was either Ezra dies or he goes with Maul.

True, but I think Joker's reasoning in this respect is sound.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
True, but I think Joker's reasoning in this respect is sound.

As I said, mental acrobatics.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul fought Qui for much longer than 30 seconds. Hell, he dueled with both and Kenobi far longer than 30 seconds. This isn't about forgetting about the totality of their duel to skew the timeframe to benefit your pro Tano stance.
Because he was intentionally luring Qui-Gon into a trap, once he was separated from Kenobi Jinn was defeated in 30.

On top of that their duel on Tatooine lasted around the same length, in which Jinn is being constantly pushed back and described as barely escaping with his life.

For someone who claims to support Maul, you are rather uninformed. 🙂

Originally posted by Unbowed
As I said, mental acrobatics.
Sounds like a concession. 🙂