Originally posted by Nephthys
Nobody claimed you were obligated to do anything. If your explanation is terrible, you don't have to support it. Yoda indicates that he decreased in power as he ages, not improved. Theres nothing stating that the latter is what occurred. Further the idea that he improved that dramatically so late in his life is absurd, and you know it to be so. Which is why you're dodging the point instead of substantiating how it could possible have occurred.
Me
Your personal incredulity is not an effective counterargument.
I offered you a perfectly viable explanation to ease your mind. You and Ziggy have failed to make your case and now, with all the grace of a chronic epileptic mid-seizure, attempt to shift the burden of proof to me.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nobody claimed you were obligated to do anything. If your explanation is terrible, you don't have to support it. It doesn't cease to be terrible, however. Yoda indicates that he decreased in power as he ages, not improved. Theres nothing stating that the latter is what occurred. Further, the idea that he improved that dramatically so late in his life is absurd, and you know it to be so. Which is why you're dodging the point instead of substantiating how it could possible have occurred.
Allow me to give several other explanations then 🙂
[list][*] Yoda had confronted his inner darkness and could call on more of his power because of it.
[*] A Jedi's power relies on mindset, and lifting stones just to lift stones obviously does not exert as much force power as attempting to save a planet.
[*] Yoda's original decrease in power was due to other circumstances that didn't factor into his explanation, since he doesn't outright say it's all down to age.
[*] Yoda's constant battles and focus on a war effort led him to rekindle a stronger connection in the realm of Alter, something a Jedi would rarely have to do during peace time, again coupling with his morality.
[/list]
I mean, points one and two are literally the only ones you need to answer why he supposedly improved, but hey ho mmm
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Clearly not, Ziggy, since Yoda telekinetically manipulates far greater mass and weight in the century after he wrote those comments:
We can not draw conclusions from the 2003 clone wars series, they are completely unusable, as they have been contradicted by the higher sources of canon - the movies - and other material of C-level canon - Jedi Path etc. Not to mention statements made by George Lucas, regarding the 2003 clone wars micro series:
"The way George explained it to me going in was that THE CLONE WARS micro-series was really an experiment to see what kind of audience there was for Star Wars in an animated form.[...]So when we into doing this, I think that, now that George is done with the prequels, he wanted to reestablish the rules a little bit more, like "Mace Windu can't take out hundreds of battle droids by himself, otherwise the arena on Geonosis would've been a wipeout"
The foggy window theory created by LFL officials also supports this.
You've yet to demonstrate a retcon. You should consider actually doing so in your next post, or I'm afraid I'll have to accept your concession.
You're quite right, i have demonstrated around four retcons from different sources.
Originally posted by Selenial
Allow me to give several other explanations then 🙂[list][*] Yoda had confronted his inner darkness and could call on more of his power because of it.
[*] A Jedi's power relies on mindset, and lifting stones just to lift stones obviously does not exert as much force power as attempting to save a planet.
[*] Yoda's original decrease in power was due to other circumstances that didn't factor into his explanation, since he doesn't outright say it's all down to age.
[*] Yoda's constant battles and focus on a war effort led him to rekindle a stronger connection in the realm of Alter, something a Jedi would rarely have to do during peace time, again coupling with his morality.
[/list]I mean, points one and two are literally the only ones you need to answer why he supposedly improved, but hey ho mmm
On behalf of Neph, I must reject those explanations. They make far too much of that sense stuff.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You'd have to provide a quote for that.
He's right, TBH. Central stone was five tonnes, exteriors were smaller. Each weighed one tonne.
If y'all want to play retcon games though, The Jedi Path was retconned by the fact Dooku casually lifted over fourty tonnes of similar stones, and Yoda is confirmed his superior 🙂
Originally posted by Selenial
He's right, TBH. Central stone was five tonnes, exteriors were smaller. Each weighed one tonne.If y'all want to play retcon games though, The Jedi Path was retconned by the fact Dooku casually lifted over fourty tonnes of similar stones, and Yoda is confirmed his superior 🙂
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
We can not draw conclusions from the 2003 clone wars series, they are completely unusable, as they have been contradicted by the higher sources of canon - the movies - and other material of C-level canon - Jedi Path etc. Not to mention statements made by George Lucas, regarding the 2003 clone wars micro series:"The way George explained it to me going in was that THE CLONE WARS micro-series was really an experiment to see what kind of audience there was for Star Wars in an animated form.[...]So when we into doing this, I think that, now that George is done with the prequels, [b]he wanted to reestablish the rules a little
bit more, like "Mace Windu can't take out hundreds of battle droids by himself, otherwise the arena on Geonosis would've been a wipeout"The foggy window theory created by LFL officials also supports this.
You're quite right, i have demonstrated around four retcons from different sources. [/B]
The microseries is Legends, not canon. So in addition to a clumsy attempt to shift the burden of proof, you're now hinging your argument on a strawman fallacy.
Your quote, by the way, mentions nothing about Yoda manipulating Trade Federation dropships.
I'm sure you did your best, but you missed the mark.
Again.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I offered you a perfectly viable explanation to ease your mind. You and Ziggy have failed to make your case and now, with all the grace of a chronic epileptic mid-seizure, attempt to shift the burden of proof to me.
I'm not making any case other than that yours is shit. Your explanation is not viable and you've failed to establish how it could possibly be so. If you make a terrible argument, it's reasonable for it to be called out as such. If you then fail to substantiate that argument when pressed, then I'm perfectly free to continue to label it as terrible. Don't get pissy just because you can't be asked to try.
Originally posted by Selenial
Allow me to give several other explanations then 🙂[list][*] Yoda had confronted his inner darkness and could call on more of his power because of it.
[*] A Jedi's power relies on mindset, and lifting stones just to lift stones obviously does not exert as much force power as attempting to save a planet.
[*] Yoda's original decrease in power was due to other circumstances that didn't factor into his explanation, since he doesn't outright say it's all down to age.
[*] Yoda's constant battles and focus on a war effort led him to rekindle a stronger connection in the realm of Alter, something a Jedi would rarely have to do during peace time, again coupling with his morality.
[/list]I mean, points one and two are literally the only ones you need to answer why he supposedly improved, but hey ho mmm
Awful explanations all around. None of that is as much of a factor as his aging, which was already affecting him at 700, let alone when he neared 900 and was a mere 2 decades from dying of old age. It's also all speculative. Yoda says that after 700 he can only lift 5 stones. It doesn't say he can only do that when not trying that hard. Suggesting that he'd suddenly get dozens of times stronger just because he wants to harder is ludicrous. Likewise confronting his darkside and having more practise would lead to minor increases, not the insane one we're talking about.
Go back to the drawing board.
Originally posted by Selenial
If y'all want to play retcon games though, The Jedi Path was retconned by the fact Dooku casually lifted over fourty tonnes of similar stones, and Yoda is confirmed his superior 🙂
Meh, the weight of those stones is a guess on your part.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Neph, this is just getting pathetic.You're making me feel pity and that's not an emotion I want to feel at 8:00 in the morning. 🙁
What is?
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The microseries is Legends, not canon. So in addition to a clumsy attempt to shift the burden of proof, you're now hinging your argument on a strawman fallacy.Your quote, by the way, mentions nothing about Yoda manipulating Trade Federation dropships.
I'm sure you did your best, but you missed the mark.
Again.
That statement was made before the Legend/Canon split, lol. And it doesn't have to mention all specific feats, the intention of "reestablishing the rules" after the 2003 series is obvious.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'd need a quote.
mmm
Conflicting sources, now that I look into it. The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia claims:
Each of the Muntuur stones weighed at least 5 metric tons.
But the original source for their weight, Galaxy Guide 9: Fragments from the Rim, claims that:
The heaviest of the seven Muntuur Stones weighs over five metric tons."
Spoiler:
However dubious Tempest's explanation may be, it's still infinitely superior to Neph/Ziggy's, which is literally nonexistent. They offer no explanation - they just tell us to toss away the feats in question and pretend that they never even existed.Of course, why they choose to discard onscreen feats rather than a line from a sourcebook, we may never know.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not making any case other than that yours is shit. Your explanation is not viable and you've failed to establish how it could possibly be so. If you make a terrible argument, it's reasonable for it to be called out as such. If you then fail to substantiate that argument when pressed, then I'm perfectly free to continue to label it as terrible. Don't get pissy just because you can't be asked to try.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your personal incredulity is not an effective counterargument.Your butthurt, though, is as pleasing as ever.