Yoda's TK - not that incredible afterall.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Awful explanations all around. None of that is as much of a factor as his aging, which was already affecting him at 700, let alone when he neared 900 and was a mere 2 decades from dying of old age. It's also all speculative. Yoda says that after 700 he can only lift 5 stones. It doesn't say he can only do that when not trying that hard. Suggesting that he'd suddenly get dozens of times stronger just because he wants to harder is ludicrous. Likewise confronting his darkside and having more practise would lead to minor increases, not the insane one we're talking about.

Confronting his Dark Side made him so markedly stronger that he could transcend death and become a Force Ghost, and so much stronger that Sidious was shocked at his strength and actually feared him...

Not to mention:

Originally posted by Selenial
If y'all want to play retcon games though, The Jedi Path was retconned by the fact Dooku casually lifted over fourty tonnes of similar stones, and Yoda is confirmed his superior 🙂

Which is not guesswork at all, keep trying though.

Originally posted by The Ellimist

Spoiler:
However dubious Tempest's explanation may be, it's still infinitely superior to Neph/Ziggy's, which is literally nonexistent. They offer no explanation - they just tell us to toss away the feats in question and pretend that they never even existed.

Of course, why they choose to discard onscreen feats rather than a line from a sourcebook, we may never know.

Spoiler:
It's pretty pathetic yeah, even by TOR standards.

Spoiler:
I don't actually give a shit about the Muntuur stones, obviously Yoda is stronger than this. Temps argument was just poor.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
👆

To be fair, there is another source that dictates the weights of the other stones as far less, I just haven't found it yet. You're also cherrypicking the source that is more beneficial to Yoda, when we both know how hilariously incorrect TCSWE can be.

Originally posted by Selenial
Confronting his Dark Side made him so markedly stronger that he could transcend death and become a Force Ghost, and so much stronger that Sidious was shocked at his strength and actually feared him...

Not to mention:

Which is not guesswork at all, keep trying though.

So he's Qui-Gon level. Neat.

I already responded to the Dooku thing.

Originally posted by The Ellimist

Spoiler:
However dubious Tempest's explanation may be, it's still infinitely superior to Neph/Ziggy's, which is literally nonexistent. They offer no explanation - they just tell us to toss away the feats in question and pretend that they never even existed.

Of course, why they choose to discard onscreen feats rather than a line from a sourcebook, we may never know.

👆

All I said is that Yoda's abilities could have {and obviously did} increase in the time between his comments and the microseries. Sel provided ample explanations as to how and why that could have happened.

Frankly the answer is obvious, as Legends sources both the Jedi Path and the 2003 microseries are equally fallible. However through a simple application of logic its easy to deduce which depiciton of peak-Yoda's powers to be more accurate, and it's not the Jedi Path.

Temp. Could you make a real argument plox?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The microseries is Legends

Yes, well done tempest. Have a sticker.

not canon.

What exactly are you trying to prove? The movies, the TCW series, the Micro series - and yes - statements made by Lucas, are all part of the Legends continuity. And as you already know, some of those have conflicting ideas about what a Jedi can or can not do. In this case we have a system that has already been designed to put things in order. In this case, Lucas dictates the rules, meaning those awesome feats are out the question.

So in addition to a clumsy attempt to shift the burden of proof, you're now hinging your argument on a strawman fallacy.

I'm not doing either, as I have presented the proofs, and they're better than yours. And if you want to talk about Logical fallacies, your position is merely an expedient by which an argumentum ad hominem is put forward as an argumentum
ad rem. Allow me to explain. Should your opponent be in the right, but, luckily for your contention, choose a faulty proof, you can easily manage to refute it, and then claim that you have thus refuted his whole position. If no accurate proof occurs to him or to the bystanders, you have won the day. For example, if a man advances the ontological argument by way of proving God’s existence, you can get the best of him, for the ontological argument may easily be refuted. This is the way in which bad advocates lose a good case, by trying to justify it by an authority which does not fit it, when no fitting one occurs to them. Unfortunbaly fo you tempest I come with several proofs and not just one. All which make the case plain as day. Yoda can not move those Mother large Ships and his Telekinesis showings in other sources are quite underwhelming.

Your quote, by the way, mentions nothing about Yoda manipulating Trade Federation dropships.

Does not matter. They are in reference to OCW as whole. Again, this is the highest source of canon (in legends):

I'm sure you did your best, but you missed the mark.

There really is no need to be upset Tempest.

I'll repeat it, this statment does put an end to the debate:

"The way George explained it to me going in was that THE CLONE WARS micro-series was really an experiment to see what kind of audience there was for Star Wars in an animated form.[...]So when we into doing this, I think that, now that George is done with the prequels, he wanted to reestablish the rules a little bit more, like "Mace Windu can't take out hundreds of battle droids by himself, otherwise the arena on Geonosis would've been a wipeout"

Legends and canon are entirely distinct phenomena. The canon "hierarchy" system was created prior to the split to encompass and guide a single mythology, which no longer exists.

No one has claimed that the microseries represents a canon depiction of Jedi Force powers. Your argument's sucess, therefore, is contingent on a strawman.

You have claimed that The Jedi Path retcons the microseries. I have demonstrated that, per usual, you're wrong.

I accepted your concession on the last page, Ziggy. Catch up, plz.

👆

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Temp. Could you make a real argument plox?

You should be begging at his feet, child.

Originally posted by Selenial
mmm

Conflicting sources, now that I look into it. The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia claims:

But the original source for their weight, Galaxy Guide 9: Fragments from the Rim, claims that:

But then also, the other stones weights never were clarified. The Encyclopedia is giving all the stones at least 5 metric tons, rather then just the 1.

The heaviest being over 5? So there really isn't a contradiction here...at least nothing extreme.

All the stones are noted as being 5 metric tons, with the heaviest being over 5 metric tons.

Yeah the Encyclopedia says all, but even still.

Regardless, the stones were given a quantifiable weight rather than just 1 of them.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Legends and canon are entirely distinct phenomena. The canon "hierarchy" system was created prior to the split to encompass and guide a single mythology, which no longer exists.

There is no reason to assume the system that was created in the past doesn't apply to the Legends continuity, as was created for that purpose. So this is a moot point.

No one has claimed that the microseries represents a canon depiction of Jedi Force powers.

So it's a concession?

You have claimed that The Jedi Path retcons the microseries. I have demonstrated that, per usual, you're wrong.

My assertion is that Yoda's TK is unimpressive, which is supported by a number of sources. The Jedi path stating he can lift no more than 5 muntuur stones past age 700, is one. It stands to reason that his Telekinesis has declined as he nears 900, rather than improved one-thousand times over. This is a retcon. Then there are the movies (the higher levels of canon) or 'legends' depicting him struggling with lesser objects such as steel columns or senate pods. As a final nail in the coffin, we have George Lucas renouncing the micro series for it's inaccurate depiction of Jedi powers.

Your postion is that you know I'm in the right (yoda can not move ships of those sizes) but you think that I have chosen a faulty proof, and when you refute it, you can then claim that you have refuted the whole position. This isn't exactly logical debating...

I accepted your concession on the last page, Ziggy. Catch up, plz. [/B]

And I have accepted you concession in this post. This is merely a last ditch effort to become personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand. In becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character. This is a very popular trick, because everyone is able to carry it into effect.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Newer source would override older source would it not?

But then also, the other stones weights never were clarified.

That's not how it was done iirc.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That's not how it was done iirc.

See edit.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Legends and canon are entirely distinct phenomena. The canon "hierarchy" system was created prior to the split to encompass and guide a single mythology, which no longer exists.

No one has claimed that the microseries represents a canon depiction of Jedi Force powers. Your argument's sucess, therefore, is contingent on a strawman.

You have claimed that The Jedi Path retcons the microseries. I have demonstrated that, per usual, you're wrong.

I accepted your concession on the last page, Ziggy. Catch up, plz.

That statement was also created prior to the legends-canon split. So I'm not sure why you think that matters. Lucas himself is indicating that the microseries is irrelevant. It was before the split, it wouldn't change after it.

Tempest has become pretty senile over the years. I was at least expecting a fight.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You should be begging at his feet, child.

I've lost all respect for you as well AP so you can go back to making blogs no one will read if you like.