Captain America vs. Rorschach/Nite Owl

Originally posted by Nibedicus
As for Loki, he's not in this thread so I'll not go into detail except say that Loki was facing the Bifrost explosion and was at ground zero. With his mouth wide open, his head tilted up and his chin/neck pretty exposed. It's all opinion til we crunch the numbers, but I'm willing to bet the impact force per square inch from the pressure wave from what looks like a 10-15(?) storey explosion at ground zero is much much greater than Ozy's best punching "feat".

But you said you dunno to Cap. So you are creating a double standard. If a character doesn't have a throat feat then automatically Ozy can kill them with a throat punch. Cap has no throat feats.

The bridge explosion were huge chunks of bridge material. We do not know if Loki got hit in the throat.

Originally posted by h1a8
But you said you dunno to Cap. So you are creating a double standard. If a character doesn't have a throat feat then automatically Ozy can kill them with a throat punch. Cap has no throat feats.

The bridge explosion were huge chunks of bridge material. We do not know if Loki got hit in the throat.

IOW, you don't know how explosions work.

Originally posted by h1a8
But you said you dunno to Cap. So you are creating a double standard. If a character doesn't have a throat feat then automatically Ozy can kill them with a throat punch. Cap has no throat feats.

The bridge explosion were huge chunks of bridge material. We do not know if Loki got hit in the throat.

Read my first paragraph of the previous reply (not the recent one, the one prior) carefully. Don't speed read it.

And you don't seem to know how explosions work.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Read my first paragraph of the previous reply (not the recent one, the one prior) carefully. Don't speed read it.

And you don't seem to know how explosions work.

The problem is that you are NOT saying "I dunno" about Cap crushing Rorshach trachea with a single blow. Yet your position is that skin, bone, joint, muscle, vein, and nerve durability correlates very little to trachea durability. Thus anyone, without neck feats, will die to anyone of superhuman strength from a throat strike since their superhuman durability in other areas don't highly correlate to trachea durability. Do you know how crazy that sounds?

Not all explosions are the same. There are many different kinds. Many humans survived certain explosions without their tracheas being crushed or even damaged whatsoever. They had other upper body injuries though. Any many humans died from full frontal explosions without their trachea being crushed.
In that scene, it's not convincing that a human will suffer a crushed trachea if they traded places with loki. It's possible they will die due to getting struck by one or more of the pieces of bridge.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Read my first paragraph of the previous reply (not the recent one, the one prior) carefully. Don't speed read it.

And you don't seem to know how explosions work.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Cap? I dunno. Will have to check his "feats" to see if he's gotten struck in the throat. I doubt Ozy could land a perfect throat strike on average, tho. Those things are not easy to hit. You need to vastly outspeed, outstrength (to overpower defenses) and outskill your opponent (or use surprise). Or do a grapple-strike (grab them, tip their heads back and strike throat). A basic boxer stance (w/c Cap does) requires you to tuck your chin after all. But a perfect throat strike being lethal seems within reason. The same way Cap would kill Ozy on a perfect throat strike (but is unlikely to happen).

Originally posted by h1a8
I did read it. You said that you dunno. Then you explained how difficult it will be to hit Cap in the neck (which wasn't the point of my question).

The problem is that you are NOT saying "I dunno" about Cap crushing Rorshach trachea with a single blow. Yet your position is that skin, bone, joint, muscle, vein, and nerve durability correlates very little to trachea durability. Thus anyone, without neck feats, will die to anyone of superhuman strength from a throat strike since their superhuman durability in other areas don't highly correlate to trachea durability. Do you know how crazy that sounds?

Not all explosions are the same. There are many different kinds. Many humans survived certain explosions without their tracheas being crushed or even damaged whatsoever. They had other upper body injuries though. Any many humans died from full frontal explosions without their trachea being crushed.
In that scene, it's not convincing that a human will suffer a crushed trachea if they traded places with loki. It's possible they will die due to getting struck by one or more of the pieces of bridge.

facepalm

Originally posted by h1a8
I did read it. You said that you dunno. Then you explained how difficult it will be to hit Cap in the neck (which wasn't the point of my question).

The problem is that you are NOT saying "I dunno" about Cap crushing Rorshach trachea with a single blow. Yet your position is that skin, bone, joint, muscle, vein, and nerve durability correlates very little to trachea durability. Thus anyone, without neck feats, will die to anyone of superhuman strength from a throat strike since their superhuman durability in other areas don't highly correlate to trachea durability. Do you know how crazy that sounds?

Not all explosions are the same. There are many different kinds. Many humans survived certain explosions without their tracheas being crushed or even damaged whatsoever. They had other upper body injuries though. Any many humans died from full frontal explosions without their trachea being crushed.
In that scene, it's not convincing that a human will suffer a crushed trachea if they traded places with loki. It's possible they will die due to getting struck by one or more of the pieces of bridge.

Apparently you need to read his post at least one more time, as it does contain the answer to your question. you also need to a) re-watch the Bi-Frost explosion and b) learn how explosions work.

Someone should profile that reply. Seriously.

I thought h1 was supposed to be smart, but apparently he can't read or understand basic physics.

Originally posted by h1a8
I did read it. You said that you dunno. Then you explained how difficult it will be to hit Cap in the neck (which wasn't the point of my question).

The problem is that you are NOT saying "I dunno" about Cap crushing Rorshach trachea with a single blow. Yet your position is that skin, bone, joint, muscle, vein, and nerve durability correlates very little to trachea durability. Thus anyone, without neck feats, will die to anyone of superhuman strength from a throat strike since their superhuman durability in other areas don't highly correlate to trachea durability. Do you know how crazy that sounds?

Not all explosions are the same. There are many different kinds. Many humans survived certain explosions without their tracheas being crushed or even damaged whatsoever. They had other upper body injuries though. Any many humans died from full frontal explosions without their trachea being crushed.
In that scene, it's not convincing that a human will suffer a crushed trachea if they traded places with loki. It's possible they will die due to getting struck by one or more of the pieces of bridge.

I'm sorry to butt in but Cap has multitudes of durability showings. From dropping multiple stories onto concrete to getting hit by Loki to getting punched by IM to surviving explosions (albeit with shield).

Rosch, NO and Ozy all have no durability feats that can match what Cap has gone through, let alone any that can match up to Loki. So your comparison is null.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm sorry to butt in but Cap has multitudes of durability showings. From dropping multiple stories onto concrete to getting hit by Loki to getting punched by IM to surviving explosions (albeit with shield).

Rosch, NO and Ozy all have no durability feats that can match what Cap has gone through, let alone any that can match up to Loki. So your comparison is null.

That doesn't matter as that's not the argument. The argument is whether or not throat durability should scale well with durability of skin, muscle, bone, veins, and nerves?

Nibedicus is basically saying that if a character doesn't have a throat feat then any peek human can kill them with a throat punch.
That means Ozy can kill Thor, Superman, Hulk, Loki, etc provided that they did not have any throat feats.

That's stupid as hell. Nerves, veins, muscles, joints, and tissues should scale well with throat.

In summary, Muscles, skin, veins, nerves, joints are bulletproof through feats but the throat isn't simply because it has no feats.
😱

That isn't his argument, that is the strawman you created because countering his argument was too much for you.

Originally posted by h1a8
That doesn't matter as that's not the argument. The argument is whether or not throat durability should scale well with durability of skin, muscle, bone, veins, and nerves?

Nibedicus is basically saying that if a character doesn't have a throat feat then any peek human can kill them with a throat punch.
That means Ozy can kill Thor, Superman, Hulk, Loki, etc provided that they did not have any throat feats.

That's stupid as hell. Nerves, veins, muscles, joints, and tissues should scale well with throat.

In summary, Muscles, skin, veins, nerves, joints are bulletproof through feats but the throat isn't simply because it has no feats.
😱

The original argument I believe was whether Cap can one-shot kill Rorsch and NO if I'm not mistaken. And then that changed to whether a throat hit can kill Rorsch or NO. To that question the answer is yes, Cap can definitely kill either of them from a clean throat hit.

So let's not make this argument any more complicated than it is.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The original argument I believe was whether Cap can one-shot kill Rorsch and NO if I'm not mistaken. And then that changed to whether a throat hit can kill Rorsch or NO. To that question the answer is yes, Cap can definitely kill either of them from a clean throat hit.

So let's not make this argument any more complicated than it is.

I argued against it because Rorshach has a feat of resisting tonnage on his face without being damaged. A kick with that type of force would have taken a human head clean off and exploded the face to a decent degree. Rorshach wasn't even damaged at all.

So going from not damaged to being killed is several orders of magnitudes more. Cap doesn't have any striking feats even 1 order of magnitude above Ozy's feat. And that's if it's even greater at all.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That isn't his argument, that is the strawman you created because countering his argument was too much for you.

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course it is. That's why he was talking about a mod ruling. Look at his original posts. He basically said that the throat has nothing to do with the other parts of the body.

Unlike you, I've actually read his posts and that isn't his argument at all. but continue with your strawman, as we all know you're not up to actually debating his points.

Originally posted by h1a8
I argued against it because Rorshach has a feat of resisting tonnage on his face without being damaged. A kick with that type of force would have taken a human head clean off and exploded the face to a decent degree. Rorshach wasn't even damaged at all.

So going from not damaged to being killed is several orders of magnitudes more. Cap doesn't have any striking feats even 1 order of magnitude above Ozy's feat. And that's if it's even greater at all.

I can get kicked in the head and not get killed. Knocked down, possibley knocked out, but if I was kicked in the throat with the same force I'd be dead. Same applies here.

Nib already posted a feat of Cap kicking Crossbones a further distance than Ozy kicked Rorsch, showing that Cap has striking feats more impressive than Rosch has tanked.

Besides if he was really as durable as you say, why'd he get beat up by a bunch of cops hmmm?

Originally posted by h1a8
That doesn't matter as that's not the argument. The argument is whether or not throat durability should scale well with durability of skin, muscle, bone, veins, and nerves?

Nibedicus is basically saying that if a character doesn't have a throat feat then any peek human can kill them with a throat punch.
That means Ozy can kill Thor, Superman, Hulk, Loki, etc provided that they did not have any throat feats.

That's stupid as hell. Nerves, veins, muscles, joints, and tissues should scale well with throat.

In summary, Muscles, skin, veins, nerves, joints are bulletproof through feats but the throat isn't simply because it has no feats.
😱

Originally posted by Silent Master
That isn't his argument, that is the strawman you created because countering his argument was too much for you.

Funny how he's now manufactured an argument I never made (where my actual stances are actually available if he just read my previous replies properly) so he can have something to argue against.

hmm

H1 logic meltdown?