Captain America vs. Rorschach/Nite Owl

Started by Nibedicus20 pages
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Um no. If you're going to use real time speeds for the initial gunshot, then there was no way for Ozy to catch it as the bullet would have travelled wayyyy past Ozy by the time the

Reposted and fixd for typo.

Originally posted by h1a8
1) The Ozy fights don't contradict his bullet feat. I already addressed this.

2) If an attack is moving far slower than a bullet then Ozy doesn't need to move as fast. He can casually defend without exerting himself to much. We saw how casually he was blocking and parrying both their attacks.

3)And both were attacking with speeds faster than any attack we seen from all the Cap and Avengers movies (Cap and WS). And that's if you are basing actual speed with visual speed.

1) And why should the bullet catch and fighting showings need to contradict each other? The problem with you is that you always feel that ppl need to prove you wrong. When it is actually you who needs to prove yourself right first. Such thinking is just plain lazy.

2) Um. No. Ppl who catch 100mph fast balls do not directly translate their ability to catch directly into their ability to fight. The blocking/defending he did against NO and Ror should be the basis with the bullet catch as merely a enhancer to the evidence, not the other way around,

3) Opinion. Proof needed.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Um no. If you're going to use real time speeds for the initial gunshot, then there was no way the bullet would have travelled wayyyy past Ozy by the time the camera cut to him.

It is either the shot was done in slo mo consistent with the shot or the shot was done in real time and I can easily claim that it is simple SFX timing error. You can't have it both ways simply so it would fit your argument. Nice try, tho.

Actually I rewatched the scene. The initial gunfire was done with some slowdown. It's not the actual real time speed. The bullet still easily traveled several feet before Ozy moved though. That much is clear.

Um no. Your logic is wrong. All Ozy had to do was be BEAT the bullet to the destination, not time it within a perfect time position with not even a fractional margin of error. So all he had to do was time his movement on or fractionally before or after (0:00) of the shot and simply have the reflex speed to beat the shot from (0:00) to (0:01). A fractional margin of error (even at 0.001+) would have been irrelevant if he still had the speed to outrace the bullet and if my experiment proves anything, the timing would not be too difficult for a superhuman if he managed to anticipate it.

This is basic stuff. How do you not get this?

Here are some visual aids for your benefit:

<-----Gunfire -----------> Catch
<-----(0:00)------------->(0:01)

Any of the ---- signifies his margin of error.

NOT:

Gunfire > Miss > Catch > Miss
(0:00) (0.0099) (0:01) (0:011)

Ozy's hand motion was a completely sweeping motion. He did not move his hand to the target and keep it there. He caught the bullet in one continuous smooth motion and keep it moving at the same pace. In other words, after the catch, his hand continued to move in the same path. Plus he caught the bullet dead center of his hand on purpose. Thus his timing had to be very precise.

Wrong again. A .38 special [b]110 gr hollow point travels at 900 fps. And if you look at the slug Ozy pulled out, it is obviously not a hollow point. It looks like a standard LRN (lead round nose) bullet to me w/c goes from 670-770 fps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Special

If you're going to wiki and act like an armchair expert, the least you can do is perform due diligence and read thru the material. Jeez.

BS. Pulling arbitrary numbers =/= proof. You will excuse me if I disregard this BS entirely until you provide proof.[/B]

I didn't use the 960ft/s in my measurements, I used your lower estimate of 700ft/s. Remember? I was just stating that there are various sources that have .38 special traveling upwards beyond 960ft/s, especially considering the plus P model. This was information for you since I believed you didn't know the upper limits of the bullet. Tbh, I never looked at wikipedia. So all this was from you is trolling since it doesn't accomplish anything but derail the thread. If I used 700ft/s then don't address random statements about 960ft/s because they are irrelevant to the argument. I didn't use the 960 figure at all. Simply ignore them if I didn't use them as any evidence towards anything.

So go ahead and provide me with .38 special slo mo shots or any kind of evidence that would consistently prove the distances you claim. Cuz you would pardon me if I call you full of shit as I have easily and constantly proven you wrong about a lot of things in the past. I'm willing to accept solid evidence and would love to revise my position once evidence is provided but your word has less worth in these here parts than the giant turd I just shat a few hours ago. At least that could have been used as fertilizer. If you want to be taken seriously, don't be lazy, do your due diligence and provide research/sources.

Til then I will retain my position that the use of flash visibility is a poor and inconsistent metric of the distance a .38 special bullet would have traveled due to its RL inconsistency and the possibility of SFX errors making the metric even less dependable.

Let me get something straight. Do you honestly believe that a .38 special bullet will have moved UNDER 2 feet of distance by the time the flash fire has ended?

Lol at your weak insults tho. That at least was very entertaining. Your use of "logic and common sense" is terrible (downright lazy most of the time) so you criticizing my logic actually means I'm doing something right.

Oh wait! Look at this:

😂

Gotta save this for when you start making up shit again.

You know about your whole "making stuff up" accusation? Pls post and quote anything in this thread what I made up. Quote it. Come on. [b]I challenge you to quote it. Otherwise, it's just classic projection.

Um no. Nice lie. But no. You said he had bullet speed reactions. Meaning equal or very close to the speed of a bullet. That is a VERY SPECIFIC measurement:[/B]

You are making up false reasons to why Ozy was able to catch the bullet. You are saying that he anticipated it by looking at twitches, etc. when there was no evidence pointing towards that. No where does the scene point out that he's looking at a twitch from her. The evidence shown is that he used speed and reflexes to catch the bullet, nothing more. This is because he moved AFTER the gun fire. When a member is desperately making stuff up (not shown or alluded to in a comic or movie) then it is trolling. You can even ask a mod about it. There has to be direct evidence SHOWN in the feat to support your made up story.

These are actors and fiction, they are simply acting. The actor playing Ozy didn't actually catch a bullet. That means nothing extra exists unless it is alluded to or shown. Making up stuff not shown or alluded to is trolling.

He caught a bullet under very special conditions. An outlier "feat" that is impressive but does not give him reflexes equal to a bullet if we factor in anticipation and distance traveled. I am willing to accept that he has shown a good fraction of a bullet's speed under very special conditions, however.

He reacted and moved after the bullet was fired. This is well beyond the capability to be able to easily block a punch or attack from Cap. Saying that he anticipation and reacted before the bullet entered the air is trolling.

Let me get this straight: So you think Ozy would beat Cap in a fight? Well, if so, I challenge you to a BZ:

Ozymandias vs Captain America Battlezone challenge to h1a8 from Nibedicus dated: Dec. 5, 2016 (my timezone). Standard rules apply.

Refusing would prove to everyone that you are just a troll who doesn't even believe in the crap you post.

Of course Ozy would easily beat Cap in a h2h fight (no shield). It would be a 10/10 easy fight.

Cap is too slow for Ozy's reflexes. Far slower than a bullet. Here's some facts about Ozy and Cap.

1. Ozy casually blocked and parried attacks by Rorschach that were visually faster than any attack ever thrown by Cap in all of his movies. Don't believe me? I can post an attack made by Rorschach and challenge you to find a punch or attack made by Cap that was equal in speed or faster.

2. Ozy caught a bullet using speed and reflexes. Thus he would only need a fraction of that ability in order to CASUALLY defend against Cap. Even if Ozy falsely anticipated as you claimed then that even helps his case more since he can do the same to Cap. He's the world's smartest man and can anticipate a bullet and thus he can easily anticipate Cap's attacks.

You still haven't proven that Ozy can fight at bullet-time speed.

You know what? I actually started writing a reply but decided that it is moot. I will not use more of my arguments here when I can use them in a BZ.

You claimed 10/10 for Ozy. Good. Let's go. This should be easy for you.

I challenged you to a BZ h1. Why are you glossing over this fact? Pick up the gauntlet or don't you believe in your own logic?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Reposted and fixd for typo.

1) And why should the bullet catch and fighting showings need to contradict each other? The problem with you is that you always feel that ppl need to prove you wrong. When it is actually you who needs to prove yourself right first. Such thinking is just plain lazy.

2) Um. No. Ppl who catch 100mph fast balls do not directly translate their ability to catch directly into their ability to fight. The blocking/defending he did against NO and Ror should be the basis with the bullet catch as merely a enhancer to the evidence, not the other way around,

3) Opinion. Proof needed.

1) That's how debates work. I support a claim and then the opponent rebuts my claim (prove my claim is wrong). I'm not making claims without supporting them. Every statement I make has reasoning or shown evidence behind it (supporting my claim). If my reasoning is faulty then it's up to whoever to prove it. Just saying it's faulty isn't proof (Silent trolls and does that all the time).

So yes, you have to prove me wrong if I already gave support to my statement.
And I have to do the same for anyone else.

2) They catch 100mph fast balls from 60ft away or more. Thus they have 0.4 seconds to react. But if 100mph fast ball was thrown from 4ft away then they would have 0.027 seconds to react. This is not humanly possible.
Also Ozy has the skills (he's a great fighter) and the reactions. Thus his bullet timing reactions add to his ability to react to block or perceive an attack.

3) I'll post a punch thrown by Rorshach and you post any attack thrown by Cap you believe was equal in speed or faster. I'll then painstakingly measure the speed of both attacks to prove which one is faster.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You still haven't proven that Ozy can fight at bullet-time speed.

Fighting at a fraction of bullet-time speed is sufficient to win the fight. At best Ozy has bullet-time perceptions and superhuman speed. Operating at a fraction of that will suffice.

Originally posted by h1a8
Fighting at a fraction of bullet-time speed is sufficient to win the fight. At best Ozy has bullet-time perceptions and superhuman speed. Operating at a fraction of that will suffice.

So you're retracting your original claim?

Originally posted by h1a8
1) That's how debates work. I support a claim and then the opponent rebuts my claim (prove my claim is wrong). I'm not making claims without supporting them. Every statement I make has reasoning or shown evidence behind it (supporting my claim). If my reasoning is faulty then it's up to whoever to prove it. Just saying it's faulty isn't proof (Silent trolls and does that all the time).

So yes, you have to prove me wrong if I already gave support to my statement.
And I have to do the same for anyone else.

2) They catch 100mph fast balls from 60ft away or more. Thus they have 0.4 seconds to react. But if 100mph fast ball was thrown from 4ft away then they would have 0.027 seconds to react. This is not humanly possible.
Also Ozy has the skills (he's a great fighter) and the reactions. Thus his bullet timing reactions add to his ability to react to block or perceive an attack.

3) I'll post a punch thrown by Rorshach and you post any attack thrown by Cap you believe was equal in speed or faster. I'll then painstakingly measure the speed of both attacks to prove which one is faster.

1) Um. First you have to provide evidence to support a claim. Which you don't do. You literally simply throw wild theories around, claim that these theories are fact and expect the other side to prove you wrong.

2) You missed the point. Their catching does not translate to having .4 second reaction time in other areas. Gamers who can perform 10 moves per second do not translate these same speed into other areas. You have to prove that first.

3) This one I'll save for the BZ as I already know which showings to pull.

Come on h1, already thrown down the BZ gauntlet. Why are you so afraid of a judged debating medium?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) Um. First you have to provide evidence to support a claim. Which you don't do. You literally simply throw wild theories around, claim that these theories are fact and expect the other side to prove you wrong.

2) You missed the point. Their catching does not translate to having .4 second reaction time in other areas. Gamers who can perform 10 moves per second do not translate these same speed into other areas. You have to prove that first.

3) This one I'll save for the BZ as I already know which showings to pull.

[b]Come on h1, already thrown down the BZ gauntlet. Why are you so afraid of a judged debating medium? [/B]

1. I disagree. Everything I claim is well supported by facts and on screen evidence. If you or anyone disagrees then it's up to them to show where is the faultiness. Even if my reasoning is not sound then at least it's still reasoning. Thus requires rebuttal.

2. Of course it does if someone has skill in those other areas. Ozy has great skill in fighting, so it directly translates 100%.It's not like Ozy can catch a bullet and don't know how to fight.

3. So you have a showing where Cap VISUALLY punches faster than Rorshach? Or you are proving speed through striking power and ignoring visual speed?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you're retracting your original claim?

What does that have to do with who wins? Why are you keep derailing the thread?

Notice how h1 glosses over the BZ challenge like it never happened since he knows he can't really back up anything he says?

Originally posted by h1a8
1. I disagree. Everything I claim is well supported by facts and on screen evidence. If you or anyone disagrees then it's up to them to show where is the faultiness. Even if my reasoning is not sound then at least it's still reasoning. Thus requires rebuttal.

2. Of course it does if someone has skill in those other areas. Ozy has great skill in fighting, so it directly translates 100%.It's not like Ozy can catch a bullet and don't know how to fight.

3. So you have a showing where Cap VISUALLY punches faster than Rorshach? Or you are proving speed through striking power and ignoring visual speed?

1. BS. If everything you claiim is well supported, then you wouldn't mind putting that to the test. The fact that you can't even accept a BZ challenge means even you don't believe in what you're saying.

2. Nope. Does not directly translate. Let's BZ so we can see who is right.

3. I may or I may not. I know what showings to use and I'll let the judges decide that once we get the BZ started.

Originally posted by h1a8
What does that have to do with who wins? Why are you keep derailing the thread?

The winner of this thread has already been established, even you agreed that Captain America wins. What we're doing now is arguing tangents.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Notice how h1 glosses over the BZ challenge like it never happened since he knows he can't really back up anything he says?

How about the fact that he's accusing me of derailing the thread, all the while the last several pages of his posts have had zero to do with the thread's topic.

😆

Yeah. Noticed that.

It's like he makes being wrong a career.

I think h1 has finally shown us he still is in kindergarten..

also Nib, if h1 ever accepts your BZ let me know and I will be happy to be one of the judges

Seeing as h1 has run(crying) from several of my challenges, I seriously doubt he'll accept Nib's.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Seeing as h1 has run(crying) from several of my challenges, I seriously doubt he'll accept Nib's.

true...true

Told you h1 wouldn't accept nib's challenge.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
😆

Yeah. Noticed that.

It's like he makes being wrong a career.

😂

H1 is like Robtard, Kt, Insane Titan, etc. these guys will never under any circumstances will never do a battlezone. Ever.