DE and TPM Sidious vs Vitiate and Valkorian

Originally posted by Ursumeles
TPM Sidious could very well beat Vitate, and hold off Valk, while DE beats Vitate with medium difficulty, or Valk with a bit more diff.

Vitiate is stated to be infinitely stronger than SoR Revan (iirc), who I personally hold to be in the same tier as Plageis in Force prowess, and TPM Sheev isn't really that much stronger than him. By that logic, I see no reason for TPM Palps to be able to beat Ziost Vity. DE vs Valky is a different story, but I'm too tired to go over that one now

TPM Sidious surpassed Plagueis, so he isn't out of his league against Vitiate at all. And if it's novel Vitiate, I'm backing TPM Sheev. SWTOR Vitiate, depends.

DE Sidious is the strongest one here, though, and team 1 doesn't rely on distance-fighting nearly as much. The Palpatines take it.

I agree that Novel would lose. I'm assuming this is Ziost Vitiate, in which case there's a much larger general disparity between him and TPM Sid than DE and Valk, hence my opinion of team Tenebrae winning. I'm sure you agree at least on that. Given that we don't know the starting distance I can see the Sheev's rushing and getting an early advantage, but Valkorion has his teleportation advantage, so assuming that he didn't acquire that power after Ziost then we can easily assume that Vitiate is capable of the same, though there's no solid reason the believe this assumption.

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Even if Vitate is >TPM Sidious, the gap isn't very big, imo, as Prime Vitate is <Valkorion, who is <RotS Sidious, who is <<DE Sidious. The gap between Valkorion and DE Sidious is far bigger than the gap between Vitate and TPM.

Nah its not. Valkorion is superior to every version of sidious other than de where it's pretty equal.

I could see an argument being made for Valk being >=RotS Sidious, but he isn't equal with DE Sids, he is his inferior in nearly every aspect.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I could see an argument being made for Valk being >=RotS Sidious, but he isn't equal with DE Sids, he is his inferior in nearly every aspect.

Here an small case for Palpatine:
His force storms are just more impressive, than anything Valk has ever done. He mused that he could destroy his Palace with a thought. Other than most other Sith, Palpatine know his capabilities-he knows that he can't control his Force Storms in RotJ, tried to flee from Yoda, etc. He is also vastly superior to Vader, who has immense TK feats.
TK he dominated Byss, mindwiped million or even billions of people in a very short time(seconds, most likely). He also controlled Vader and DE Luke.
IIRC he oneshotted Galen with his lightning, killed 100 Stormtroopers and nearly broke Yodas tutinamis.

I think valkorion's mind control and pretty instant ritual on ziost were more impressive. The same can be said about his utter destruction of the dark council centuries prior.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I think valkorion's mind control and pretty instant ritual on ziost were more impressive. The same can be said about his utter destruction of the dark council centuries prior.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Nah its not. Valkorion is superior to every version of sidious other than de where it's pretty equal.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Here an small case for Palpatine:
His force storms are just more impressive, than anything Valk has ever done. He mused that he could destroy his Palace with a thought. Other than most other Sith, Palpatine know his capabilities-he knows that he can't control his Force Storms in RotJ, tried to flee from Yoda, etc. He is also vastly superior to Vader, who has immense TK feats.
TK he dominated Byss, mindwiped million or even billions of people in a very short time(seconds, most likely). He also controlled Vader and DE Luke.
IIRC he oneshotted Galen with his lightning, killed 100 Stormtroopers and nearly broke Yodas tutinamis.

If you're going to copy/paste Elimist's post, at least give him credit

On another note, that's all post-RoTS stuff, nothing backs your argument for RoTS Sheev>Vitiate, let alone Valkorion.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
If you're going to copy/paste Elimist's post, at least give him credit

On another note, that's all post-RoTS stuff, nothing backs your argument for RoTS Sheev>Vitiate, let alone Valkorion.

I just discussed DE Sids>Valk. Also, I am still waiting for feats, that put him Valk on DE Sidious level. RotS Sidious is stated to be the mostbpowerful Sith ever, of course he is more powerful than the Sith Emperor(Vitate, not Valk). By RotS, he still nearly overpowered Yodas Tutinamis and was vastly siperior to the likes of Dooku.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
I agree that Novel would lose. I'm assuming this is Ziost Vitiate, in which case there's a much larger general disparity between him and TPM Sid than DE and Valk, hence my opinion of team Tenebrae winning. I'm sure you agree at least on that. Given that we don't know the starting distance I can see the Sheev's rushing and getting an early advantage, but Valkorion has his teleportation advantage, so assuming that he didn't acquire that power after Ziost then we can easily assume that Vitiate is capable of the same, though there's no solid reason the believe this assumption.

100 meter starting distance. Fight takes place on a flat plain. Prime Vitiate.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
100 meter starting distance. Fight takes place on a flat plain. Prime Vitiate.

Oh then team 2, no question. Might as well make it Force only, sabers are never going to be involved at that distance.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol, I know most off rhis stuff from my head. Naturally Ellimist has covered most off this in his post, and It is kinda unecessary that I make a case for Sids again, against Beefy, when he dabated against Beefy.

I just discussed DE Sids>Valk. Also, I am still waiting for feats, that put him Valk on DE Sidious level. RotS Sidious is stated to be the mostbpowerful Sith ever, of course he is more powerful than the Sith Emperor(Vitate, not Valk). By RotS, he still nearly overpowered Yodas Tutinamis and was vastly siperior to the likes of Dooku.

I'll give you my argument when I'm out if school

Valk and Vitiate

Since the starting distance is 100 meters, it's easy to assume that lightsabers will not be used at any point during this fight. IIRC there were no quotes about Sheev being the "strongest Sith who ever lived" by the time of TPM, other than the claims he made himself. It's foolish to take them at face value, given that he said these things in the heat of an intense moment (his killing of Plagueis). There's no reason for us to believe this claim, given that it is from a Sith who was proud that he had succeeded in killing his master. It's clear he was gloating, not making an educated statement. The only time we have real concrete statements of his being the greatest Sith ever come around RoTS, from reliable/credible sources. By this logic we can dismiss the "greatest Sith ever" wank.

The best feats we have for Sidious at this point are his small battles in the Plagueis novel, and having been stated to have surpassed his master. In Force only, I have Plagueis in the same tier as SoR Revan, who has been stated to be solidly inferior to Vitiate before the events of Ziost (granted this was only by days). Additionally, with regards to Force prowess, the Dread Masters are collectively comparable to Plagueis (still inferior, but not by a huge margin). Said Dread Masters were said to be "insignificant compared to the Emperor." We can draw from this that Plagueis is very noticeably below Vitiate. Logically speaking, we have no evidence that supports or reason to believe Sidious being as far above Plagueis. As a result, we can deduce that Vitiate is superior to Sidious as of TPM.

For those (like myself) who don't like going by statements alone, here are some feats for Vitiate that are superior to all of Sidious' own by this point. His domination of Revan (after actually taking the fight seriously) is a good example. Another is his complete domination of the strike team of HoT, Tol Braga, and others completely effortlessly. Sheev has done nothing of this level by TPM.

I'm not even going to bother getting into DE and Valkorion. That goes back and forth endlessly, but in this case there's really no arguing that DE can take out Valky before Vitiate overwhelms TPM Sheev.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Valkorion and Vitiate.