Malgus and Thanaton vs Traya and Meetra

Originally posted by SunRazer
There's no animation when you feed off most of the people you kill, as well, even though it's the same technique as Nihilus. There's no animation when the Assassins do it, even though it's the same technique.

What Darth Nihilus did to Darth Traya wasn't passive - it was direct. The lack of visible energy is telling that it's Sever Force.

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Ant - I edited some more stuff in.

Those aren't the same as what he used on Traya.

And I don't know why you're complaining about the KotOR II information at my disposal. Nobody ever defers to me on that basis 🙁

Why is it not the same?! Because of that quote you provided defining Force drain and because the effect he had on them doesn't align to it? :/

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why is it not the same?! Because of that quote you provided defining Force drain and because the effect he had on them doesn't align to it? :/

That's more like Drain Life. It's what Kreia teaches you to do with Hanharr in the DS version, which is evidently not like Drain.

Edit: So I thought I might as well address the rest of your post since I've been taking each point individually up untill now.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Not at all. I'm merely contextualizing the game mechanics that you're bringing up.

No, I'm just using plurality in general reference, if you know what I mean. It's just Brianna.

Well for one, she's better than Kavar even before she studied from her Sith Holocrons. Kavar being revered as one of the greatest warriors of his time, perhaps even the greatest (until Revan came along, of course). As a master of Juyo, Kavar's a high-level master of at least two other forms and is one of the most skilled Force users in existence. Add to that that he's considered a virtuoso of lightsaber combat in an era where the common Jedi is an expert of lightsaber and Force-related combat. And Atris was better than him, even before she studied teachings of combat and the Force from dozens of Sith holocrons.

Brianna fought her to a standstill, then gained strength through her Bond with the Exile as the Exile fed off the deaths of legions of Sith on Citadel Station and the Ravager. And after that, she was still blitzed by Traya.

I think this will just have to be something we agree to disagree on. I think the flashpoint noting it to be a 4 man mission is sufficient enough evidence to say that Malgus faced a 4 man team along with the dialogue options.

You know I'm unaware of the events of KOTOR II. When you say Atris+ level opponents ( plural ) I of course need to delve into what you're saying as multiple Atris+ level opponents is very different from a single Atris+ level opponent. Only providing information on why I pressed you for details.

Provide the quote for Kavar please.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That's more like Drain Life. It's what Kreia teaches you to do with Hanharr in the DS version, which is evidently not like Drain.

Is the difference between the "Drain Life" technique and "Force Drain" technique made clear or are we basing this off the effect the abilities had?

If it is made clear can you provide the clip?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I think this will just have to be something we agree to disagree on. I think the flashpoint noting it to be a 4 man mission is sufficient enough evidence to say that Malgus faced a 4 man team along with the dialogue options.

You know I'm unaware of the events of KOTOR II. When you say Atris+ level opponents ( plural ) I of course need to delve into what you're saying as multiple Atris+ level opponents is very different from a single Atris+ level opponent. Only providing information on why I pressed you for details.

Yeah, yeah.

If you're unaware of KotOR II, though, don't diss it needlessly. 🙂

Provide the quote for Kavar please.

"Kavar, huh? The famed Jedi guardian? The Mandalorians counted on the fact it would be you, not Revan, who would lead the Jedi against us during the Mandalorian Wars."

The Mandalorians treat Mandalore as their greatest warrior, so it'd seem natural that they'd treat the leader of the Jedi warriors in the same way.

Even if I'm wrong on that, everything else I said is accurate.

Originally posted by SunRazer
"Kavar, huh? The famed Jedi guardian? The Mandalorians counted on the fact it would be you, not Revan, who would lead the Jedi against us during the Mandalorian Wars."

The Mandalorians treat Mandalore as their greatest warrior, so it'd seem natural that they'd treat the leader of the Jedi warriors in the same way.

Even if I'm wrong on that, everything else I said is accurate.

"Counted on the fact" seems to suggest the Mandalorians were confident they could have bested Kavar if he led the charge.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, yeah.

If you're unaware of KotOR II, though, don't diss it needlessly. 🙂

"Kavar, huh? The famed Jedi guardian? The Mandalorians counted on the fact it would be you, not Revan, who would lead the Jedi against us during the Mandalorian Wars."

The Mandalorians treat Mandalore as their greatest warrior, so it'd seem natural that they'd treat the leader of the Jedi warriors in the same way.

Even if I'm wrong on that, everything else I said is accurate.

Everything else being?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Is the difference between the "Drain Life" technique and "Force Drain" technique made clear or are we basing this off the effect the abilities had?

If it is made clear can you provide the clip?

I made it clear in that blog I linked you to. The origin, properties and the effects of the powers are completely different.

Traya specifically compares certain techniques to Nihilus' Drain. She doesn't in the case with Hanharr, which is basically you feeding off his life directly. It'd be something like that with Nihilus.

There's specific quotes for what Nihilus did to his crew as well, IIRC.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I've always perceived this quote as like "we were expecting some weak ****er like you, but instead got the realest MVP," personally.

👆

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I've always perceived this quote as like "we were expecting some weak ****er like you, but instead got the realest MVP," personally.

"Counted on the fact" seems to suggest the Mandalorians were confident they could have bested Kavar if he led the charge.

He says he doesn't know how he'd fare against Kavar and the Jedi. Also, he counted on it because Kavar was leading the Jedi in the preliminary skirmishes against the Mandalorians, IIRC. The Mandalorians didn't know who Revan was then.

Originally posted by SunRazer
There's specific quotes for what Nihilus did to his crew as well, IIRC.

Pleas provide them because as of now, it appears the only basis we have for those two being separate abilities is that they have slightly different descriptions. If you can show Nihilus's draining of his crew was done with a different ability then your stance becomes more solid.

He constantly states that the Mandalorians would have won if not for Revan throughout the first and second game, tbh.

And I recall the Mandalorians winning battle after battle until Revan joined, so it seems he "counted on Kavar" since they were winning against him.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Also, he counted on it because Kavar was leading the Jedi in the preliminary skirmishes against the Mandalorians, IIRC. The Mandalorians didn't know who Revan was then.

Quote?

Also you understand that the Mandalorians aren't going to automatically assume the strongest warrior would lead the Jedi regardless of what they do in their own culture ( I assume they're aware of cultural differences ). Regardless the wording makes it seem like Revan leading the Jedi is something unexpected and ultimately detrimental given they were "counting on" Kavar leading the Jedi.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
it seems he "counted on Kavar" since they were winning against him.

Ninja'ed!

Exactly what I was thinking though. He wouldn't be "counting on Kavar" unless Kavar leading them was a good thing for them which is kind of a shitty accolade lol.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Pleas provide them because as of now, it appears the only basis we have for those two being separate abilities is that they have slightly different descriptions. If you can show Nihilus's draining of his crew was done with a different ability then your stance becomes more solid.

Darth Nihilus' dark will held the vessel and its crew together.

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

"This ship, it is a graveyard of a terrible battle. Everything on it slowly dies as long as he hungers."

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Darth Nihilus is so corrupted in the Dark Side that his very speech causes pain and death to all who hear it.

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords: Prima Guide

Nihilus powers grew so extreme that, for most beings, mere exposure to the Sith Lord would cause immediate and utterly mindless devotion.

―Star Wars Insider 88: Virtual Sith

This man gazes at you with a vacant stare - he looks half-dead.

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

It seems much like what Kreia taught the Exile in the DS version, to feed off Hanharr:

"It is a more primal connection you feel. And the hunger you feel does not stem from Hanharr - it is something you may draw upon, his very life, if need be. He does not realize how deeply his life debt runs - but he will. When you suffer, call upon that hunger, and the beast shall be that upon which your will may draw strength. Reach out... feel his presence within the ship, clawing at you, pacing. Feel the rumbling of the hull, the metal around you like a cage... and the building anger, the blood that rises behind the eyes, a bloodlust that cannot be sated. If you accept it, you will find your strength increase, and your vitality return to you faster with every breath. It will grant you strength, vitality for the times ahead."

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

It's like a passive Drain Life, it seems.

Either way, I have many quotes arrayed to prove that the power I'm talking about feeds off death. I'm losing track of what all this is about, anyway. KotORCG claims that Nihilus used Drain on Traya. That was the irony - Traya taught him to harness the technique, and he used it against her. Sever Force has no place in this 😬

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Everything else being?

All the other accolades I mentioned.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He constantly states that the Mandalorians would have won if not for Revan throughout the first and second game, tbh.

And I recall the Mandalorians winning battle after battle until Revan joined, so it seems he "counted on Kavar" since they were winning against him.

1. That's with the benefit of hindsight.

2. No, he just counted on him because he was the leader.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It seems much like what Kreia taught the Exile in the DS version, to feed off Hanharr:

It's like a passive Drain Life, it seems.

Either way, I have many quotes arrayed to prove that the power I'm talking about feeds off death.

Please provide them.

Originally posted by SunRazer
All the other accolades I mentioned.

For Kavar? You only posted one quote for him.