Originally posted by AncientPowerfacepalm
Are you suggesting that due to Krayt's hilarious claim that his powers doubled (if you compare his incarnation's feats that doesn't stand at all), then that power growth is more significant than being deceased? You just won the stupidest claim of the evening award.Face it, Reborn Krayt's feats are nearing Plagueis tier, yet Krayt can't be significantly more powerful than prime Muur. Novel Vitiate completely fodderises Muur via the fact that a thousand years of power growth earlier, he was already more powerful than Ragnos who is undoubtedly > Muur.
No, Krayt has zero feats nearing Plagueis tier, but besides that Muur was only more powerful than him in his weakest near-death state, nor is their anything remotely undoubtable about Marka's superiority. Your powerscaling is bunk.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
facepalmNo, Krayt has zero feats nearing Plagueis tier, but besides that Muur was only more powerful than him in his weakest near-death state, nor is their anything remotely undoubtable about Marka's superiority. Your powerscaling is bunk.
So being highly implied to be much more powerful than Darth Caedus is still << Plagueis? Are you balls deep now?
Muur's stated to be flat out the most powerful Force user, specifically over Krayt. Lmfao.
Marka's stated to be straight up the greatest of the Dark Lords, including Muur.
Yet again you're awful.
Originally posted by AncientPowerYes given Caedus has been debunked. 🙁
So being highly implied to be much more powerful than Darth Caedus is still << Plagueis? Are you balls deep now?
But yeah you are right, zero basis for claiming the same for Muur.
Muur's stated to be flat out the most powerful Force user, specifically over Krayt. Lmfao.1. By a publishing summary, good to see your own board with those now 2. Karness Muur was known to have the Dark Lord title, yet neither can we be sure he's inferior to Pall.Marka's stated to be straight up the greatest of the Dark Lords, including Muur.
Yet again you're awful.Dry em. 🙁
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes given Caedus has been debunked. 🙁But yeah you are right, zero basis for claiming the same for Muur.
1. By a publishing summary, good to see your own board with those now 2. Karness Muur was known to have the Dark Lord title, yet neither can we be sure he's inferior to Pall.
Dry em. 🙁
Caedus via your logic is > Vader, I guess Plagueis stomps Vader now, probs Yoda tier. 👆
Not as if Reborn Krayt's feats are actually overshadowed by Plagueis' to the extent you're attempting to portray. He's dominating all Sith in the galaxy via his power through the Force, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Stop choking on Plagueis' saber for five seconds and you might retain blood flow to your higher functions.
Spirit!Muur's superiority is stated in three sources actually. One can't say the same for Plagueis. Where in the actual text it's clear that he doesn't know if he's actually the most powerful ever and that it's certainly possible that preceding Sith Lords could have surpassed him due to their lost secrets and knowledge. That fits Vitiate perfectly.
Ragnos > All prior Dark Lords is a fact, Post-Nathema Vitiate > Ragnos is confirmed. Vitiate growing ever more powerful by draining his subjects over a thousand years until the novel is also confirmed.
There's no argument here. 😂
Originally posted by AncientPowerNow you're getting it. 👆
Caedus via your logic is > Vader, I guess Plagueis stomps Vader now, probs Yoda tier. 👆
Not as if Reborn Krayt's feats are actually overshadowed by Plagueis' to the extent you're attempting to portray. He's dominating all Sith in the galaxy via his power through the Force, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Stop choking on Plagueis' saber for five seconds and you might retain blood flow to your higher functions.He didn't dominate anyone kek, just informed them of his presence. Plagueis announced his existence to every single living thing in the galaxy, he's firmly above him in all conceivable ways.
Spirit!Muur's superiority is stated in three sources actually. One can't say the same for Plagueis. Where in the actual text it's clear that he doesn't know if he's actually the most powerful ever and that it's certainly possible that preceding Sith Lords could have surpassed him due to their lost secrets and knowledge. That fits Vitiate perfectly.I was referring to Ragnos, as I said Spirit Muur is only stated to superior to a far from prime Krayt who was all but crippled by disease. A feat that doesn't so much as scratch Plagueis' behind.
Ragnos > All prior Dark Lords is a fact, Post-Nathema Vitiate > Ragnos is confirmed. Vitiate growing ever more powerful by draining his subjects over a thousand years until the novel is also confirmed.According to a publishing summary, and Muur was never a Dark Lord, nor is there concrete proof that Ajunta Pall, the reigning Dark Lord of the time, was his better, since said reign collapsed into infighting that destroyed them all.
There's no argument here. 😂Indeed, you're just having a hard time working it out. I'll be patient though. 🙂
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Now you're getting it. 👆
If you actually think anything like that is remotely accurate then you're actually stupid.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
He didn't dominate anyone kek, just informed them of his presence. Plagueis announced his existence to every single living thing in the galaxy, he's firmly above him in all conceivable ways.
Rofl, he sent his power out through the dark side and the Sith submitted to him, the only one who didn't was Wyyrlok. Given Wyyrlok raped Andeddu that isn't surprising.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I was referring to Ragnos, as I said Spirit Muur is only stated to superior to a far from prime Krayt who was all but crippled by disease. A feat that doesn't so much as scratch Plagueis' behind.
Ragnos has more than one too. 😂
'Far from'? The only major indication of his powers having increased nearly as drastically so as to surpass Prime Muur is that he claims to have doubled in Force prowess. Yet a comparison of his feats from prior to his death to after his resurrection don't support his claim. Therefore I can't see how Krayt's increase in power as Reborn Krayt can possibly outmatch Muur's own limitations and loss of power due to his state as a spirit.
One can argue how crippling his disease was, but being dead seems a slightly more grievous incapacitation.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
According to a publishing summary, and Muur was never a Dark Lord, nor is there concrete proof that Ajunta Pall, the reigning Dark Lord of the time, was his better, since said reign collapsed into infighting that destroyed them all.
According to numerous sources. Muur wasn't the Dark Lord because he and the others submitted to Pall and nothing suggests that Pall was ever surpassed by the others. The fact they were each scrambling for new alchemical devices to subvert Pall instead of facing him directly is self-evident. Muur literally planned for death. 😂
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Indeed, you're just having a hard time working it out. I'll be patient though. 🙂
I'll wait for you to actually have an argument for Plagueis >> Krayt Reborn that doesn't include crutching on Sidious.
Plagueis has no feats putting him that far above prime Krayt, rofl.
AP you numbskill, they didn't submit to him. It just says they felt his presence and were happy their lord and savior -- who they were trained to worship since birth -- was back and that only Wyyrlok was angry about it.
Stryfe noted he won't submit to Krayt and his forces unless Krayt beats Wyyrlok, and several Sith tried to stand in his way before he got to Wyyrlok. So sh!t argument.
Originally posted by AncientPowerOh crumbs, you wound me. But no, it's absolutely the case, and not difficult to work out either.
If you actually think anything like that is remotely accurate then you're actually stupid.
Rofl, he sent his power out through the dark side and the Sith submitted to him, the only one who didn't was Wyyrlok. Given Wyyrlok raped Andeddu that isn't surprising.
Myth has it right, you're a total numbskull. They submitted to him because they were his loyal servants, not because he dominated their minds, which is supported by no source anywhere. 😬
At least make a case for Krayt based off his actual feats, not these nonsense fantasies lmao.
Ragnos has more than one too. 😂I'm aware of one other source in which Ragnos is described as "the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith", but that could be so easily interpreted in a number of ways. 🙁
So is there something else I'm missing, or are you ready to accept the truth of The Blurb?
'Far from'? The only major indication of his powers having increased nearly as drastically so as to surpass Prime Muur is that he claims to have doubled in Force prowess. Yet a comparison of his feats from prior to his death to after his resurrection don't support his claim. Therefore I can't see how Krayt's increase in power as Reborn Krayt can possibly outmatch Muur's own limitations and loss of power due to his state as a spirit.I'm not referring to his reborn state, I'm referring to the fact Krayt went from slugging it out with Abeloth to going into stasis after a spat with Cade. Apocalypse was most likely his prime, but by Muur's arrival in Legacy he's almost on his death bed, with no more than a decade or so to live by his own admission.One can argue how crippling his disease was, but being dead seems a slightly more grievous incapacitation.
As far as that relates to Reborn Krayt, given that he freed himself from his disease and reforged himself to become stronger than ever, the idea that his powers "doubled" is not nearly as hyperbolic as you claim.
Muur's loss of power being naturally weak supposition, given he had the talisman to preserve it. But didn't you claim that it was the Muur Talisman, not Muur himself, that was the source of his abilities as a spirit? I wonder how that's relevant to his own capabilities then. mmm
According to numerous sources. Muur wasn't the Dark Lord because he and the others submitted to Pall and nothing suggests that Pall was ever surpassed by the others. The fact they were each scrambling for new alchemical devices to subvert Pall instead of facing him directly is self-evident. Muur literally planned for death. 😂Ajunta Pall himself disagrees kek:
"We destroyed each other. We desired the secrets of each other, to increase our power... we battled until finally our fortresses rained down on top of us."
Sounds like a direct confrontation to me, wouldn't you agree?
I'll wait for you to actually have an argument for Plagueis >> Krayt Reborn that doesn't include crutching on Sidious.How about being tenfold more powerful than the likes of Bane & Zannah, and far more powerful than Sith Lords who could fashion fortress spanning Force barriers and rend holes in the cosmic fabric of the galaxy besides? Or perhaps upstaging the sovereignty of the Force to master it's very building blocks, through which he acquired god-like abilities to create life, reverse aging, and bring others back from the dead? How about stretching his presence across the breadth of the cosmos to announce his presence to every living thing in local existence? Or enduring the fullest extent of his apprentice's lightning, despite making no attempt to defend himself against it?Plagueis has no feats putting him that far above prime Krayt, rofl.
But maybe actually prove Muur is more powerful than Reborn Krayt first before we get into that, hmm?
Originally posted by MythLord
AP you numbskill, they didn't submit to him. It just says they felt his presence and were happy their lord and savior -- who they were trained to worship since birth -- was back and that only Wyyrlok was angry about it.Stryfe noted he won't submit to Krayt and his forces unless Krayt beats Wyyrlok, and several Sith tried to stand in his way before he got to Wyyrlok. So sh!t argument.
Numbskull.* 😬
Yes because the first panel doesn't make it at all clear that his powers extended across the Force to every Sith in the galaxy and made it clear that he's dominant. He dominated the Sith, not telepathically but via the expression of his power.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Oh crumbs, you wound me. But no, it's absolutely the case, and not difficult to work out either.
So ROTS Sidious ~ Yoda > TPM Sidious > Plagueis ~ Yoda?
LMFAO.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Myth has it right, you're a total numbskull. They submitted to him because they were his loyal servants, not because he dominated their minds, which is supported by no source anywhere. 😬At least make a case for Krayt based off his actual feats, not these nonsense fantasies lmao.
Might want to try not piggybacking next time.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm aware of one other source in which Ragnos is described as "the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith", but that could be so easily interpreted in a number of ways. 🙁
Yes of course it can be 'interpreted' in a number of ways when the foremost trait of import among Sith is power.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
So is there something else I'm missing, or are you ready to accept the truth of The Blurb?
I'll accept that as readily as Dynasty of Evil's. 😂
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm not referring to his reborn state, I'm referring to the fact Krayt went from slugging it out with Abeloth to going into stasis after a spat with Cade. Apocalypse was most likely his prime, but by Muur's arrival in Legacy he's almost on his death bed, with no more than a decade or so to live by his own admission.
Yes and Krayt's power is focused on sustaining himself, which whilst it certainly makes his feats at this time more impressive, considering said diversion of power, it doesn't however change the fact that in over-all Force prowess, Muur's spirit is stronger.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
As far as that relates to Reborn Krayt, given that he freed himself from his disease and reforged himself to become stronger than ever, the idea that his powers "doubled" is not nearly as hyperbolic as you claim.
It is where an actual comparison of his feats come into account. He definitely improves drastically but not by multiple. If so he'd be roflstomping both Wyyrlok and Cade with far greater ease.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Muur's loss of power being naturally weak supposition, given he had the talisman to preserve it. But didn't you claim that it was the Muur Talisman, not Muur himself, that was the source of his abilities as a spirit? I wonder how that's relevant to his own capabilities then. mmm
Source for his power being preserved? I know you're pulling this out of your ass (again) because all it did was preserve his spirit, not his Force reserves. The only difference between him and other spirits is that he was preserved by a Talisman instead of a dark side site.
I've never made that claim, only you.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Ajunta Pall himself disagrees kek:"We destroyed each other. We desired the secrets of each other, to increase our power... we battled until finally our fortresses rained down on top of us."
Sounds like a direct confrontation to me, wouldn't you agree?
None of which says Muur > Pall. 😂
Originally posted by Beniboybling
How about being tenfold more powerful than the likes of Bane & Zannah, and far more powerful than Sith Lords who could fashion fortress spanning Force barriers and rend holes in the cosmic fabric of the galaxy besides? Or perhaps upstaging the sovereignty of the Force to master it's very building blocks, through which he acquired god-like abilities to create life, reverse aging, and bring others back from the dead? How about stretching his presence across the breadth of the cosmos to announce his presence to every living thing in local existence? Or enduring the fullest extent of his apprentice's lightning, despite making no attempt to defend himself against it?But maybe actually prove Muur is more powerful than Reborn Krayt first before we get into that, hmm?
Tenfold more powerful? Oh Beni, that wouldn't be your fanon would it? Given it is confirmed that each generation of Banite Sith grew in power, what you've gone and done is attempt to quantify that with no basis at all. Given Bane and Zannah were very much close equals without hax, the actual increases in power are absolutely debatable here, nor do we have any reason to believe said increases were even remotely similar or as broad as those the latter Banite Sith experienced.
Fortress spanning Force barriers? Has someone forgotten about Krayt's peers as a mere Jedi? I believe you have.
Force Rends are very impressive, Krayt being the primary cause of the galaxy being dominated by the dark side of the Force to a degree not seen since the days of Revan's Sith Empire seems just as impressive.
Sidious crutching. 😬 Besides, Dark Transfer does all of that and with far greater efficiency. Not including the fact that unlike Plagueis, Krayt could bring himself back from the dead, such was his mastery.
Again, Krayt's the primary reason the galaxy has been consumed by the dark side to a degree not seen since the Jedi Civil War.
Prove Prime Muur </~ Krayt? We've been discussing those quotes this entire time, or did you suddenly lose all sense?
Oh, so his Force power being "alive, seductive and dominant" means he dominated them? Yet so many Sith stood against him, Stryfe was hesitant to join him unless Wyyrlok lost and it's noted the Sith weren't dominated, but actually overjoyed their leader is back... That's a pretty ludicrous claim.
I mean, all you need to do is read the damn comic to understand that just because his power was described as "dominant", alongside several other things, doesn't mean he dominated the Sith. They might have sensed the power he was letting loose and feared him, but that isn't outright domination in any sense.
Originally posted by MythLord
Oh, so his Force power being "alive, seductive and dominant" means he dominated them? Yet so many Sith stood against him, Stryfe was hesitant to join him unless Wyyrlok lost and it's noted the Sith weren't dominated, but actually overjoyed their leader is back... That's a pretty ludicrous claim.I mean, all you need to do is read the damn comic to understand that just because his power was described as "dominant", alongside several other things, doesn't mean he dominated the Sith. They might have sensed the power he was letting loose and feared him, but that isn't outright domination in any sense.
I've never claimed he literally dominated them, I claimed that he sent his power through the Force to every Sith in the galaxy and they submitted to him. It was Wyyrlok who resisted and caused the divide. Not that it matters because even Wyyrlok himself saw Krayt's presence as a raging storm of power through the Force.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
👆AP is seriously grasping at straws here, I'll mop up the rest of her points tomorrow. 🙂
Piggybacking off of greater debaters isn't very classy.
You've yet to actually form a cohesive response that actually proves Plagueis >>> Krayt Reborn. We all know you can't but that's beside the point.