Originally posted by Nephthys*curiously tilts head* Tell me more.
Dooku can't even beat pre-Nathema Vitiate, lol. Novel Vitiate would grab him by the pussy and Mace too for that matter. He has two hands.
For real, tho: it's basically the same as sending 2 endgame Revans (or Malaks) at him. Just with 1 having the potential to get a Vaapad amp.
Well, Dooku at first challanged him in a Force fight. Dooku tried everything he could, faild, Yoda didn't answer, So Dooku decided that it's pointless and challanged him for saber duel. And this time, Yoda was much more aggressive. Perhaps he felt better in saber duel. After all he was the first one, that draw a saber in his fight against Sidious.
Yoda took on Dooku's challenge, first with the Force and then with the lightsaber.
Again, refer to the Caedus vs Skywalker fight as proof that a Jedi not dominating someone with their powers doesn't mean they can't, even in war-deciding situations.
Unless you have something *new* to contribute to this point, I suggest you agree.
Well, I was expecting a Canon sources.
They always were a part of canon. I agree, that this Dooku's statement "just because there is two of you, do not assume that you have an advantage" is a non-canon, sice we see the whole scene. But this part when he kicks Anakin in a face, and Force pushes Kenobi should be treat as a canon, sice we see only Palpatine's face at that point. Same in that short part of fuel from TPM.
And Yoda disarming Sidious is much more convincing, then whole Stover's version (which is clearly opposite to the movie, and should be treat as a non-canon at first point).
Movie deleted scenes are different from TCW deleted scenes. Movie deleted scenes have been confirmed canon by Lelaand Chee. TCW deleted scenes have no been confirmed canon, and based on how there were deleted scenes with Revan and Darth Bane that Filoni stressed didn't happen, it's clear the fact that they are no longer a thing is significant. So really, unless you can provide me a direct quote stating TCW quotes are canon, you're wrong, because we already see the full fight of Palpatine vs Maul/Opress in a novel and they never pin him.
Quite normal reaction when you're choking. Anyway, as I said, I still believe, that in Canon it is very, very hard to free himself after you being catched off-guard.
And likewise, the fact he's trying to break himself free with his hands is proof he wants to break free, which goes against what you say.
Depends. He was able to deflect some lighning bolts, but got owned by Vitiate's full power lightning (tornado? I don't have an english version of Revan).
I would rahter compere Sidious' strongest attack (which in canon was Force FL) to Vitiate's strongest (Force tornado(?)). Mace was able to hold his own for a while, while Revan was nearly instantly stomped.
Palpatine faked his wekaness, but I doubt that he could instantly kill Windu with his FL.Well, once again - assuming, that Vitiate =< Sidious in power, Sidious strongest attack has to be similar or a bit stronger. Nyriss' FL was significantly inferior to Vitiate's, while Dooku's was significantly inferior to Palpatine's. Hard to tell how much inferior Dooku's lightning was, but after all, he did a good job by supporting Sidious in his duel against Talzin. After Dooku used his FL, she was momentaly overhelmed (even despite the fact, that she was aided by Maul's strenght). I'm not sure if Dooku's FL was inferior to Nyriss' at all, and Dooku could comfortably deflect his own lightning.
a.) REVAN WAS NOT DOMINATED BY VITIATE'S FINAL ATTACK; HE ABSORBED A VAST MAJORITY OF THE ENERGY.
[b]a.) REVAN WAS NOT DOMINATED BY VITIATE'S FINAL ATTACK; HE ABSORBED A VAST MAJORITY OF THE ENERGY.[/b]
[b]a.) REVAN WAS NOT DOMINATED BY VITIATE'S FINAL ATTACK; HE ABSORBED A VAST MAJORITY OF THE ENERGY.[/b]
Please read the following (again):
Revan absorbed almost all of Vitiate's energies. He turned lightning that was "infinitely" more powerful of ashing Darth Nyriss to something that only gave him second-degree burns. In other words, he nearly completely dissipated the lightning, but Vitiate's lightning just *quite* overmatched him. When recognizing they were on a nexus, and that Vitiate channeled his energy for more time, it's possible Revan would have completely handled the attack.To put some context on the difference, exposure to 176 degrees F for .1 seconds still yields curable third-degree burns. But then at 200, it's incurable. In contrast, a body is ashed in 1400 degrees F for 1 to 3 hours. So yeah, a near-unprecedented distinction that Revan closed.
Likewise, handling lightning with a lightsaber is significantly easier than doing it with tutaminis, in which it has been stated to be "nearly impossible." The fact Windu could handle Palpatine's lightning with his lightsaber suggests it clearly wasn't *that* powerful, since Vitiate's lightning was powerful enough to overcome a lightsaber, thus why Revan opted to use tutaminis. Palpatine was faking with the lightning, and thus not unleashing his full power, which was stated by Lucas.
b.) WINDU ONLY HANDLED PALPATINE'S FAKE LIGHTNING. HE NEVER CONFRONTED HIS SERIOUS LIGHTNING EXCEPT WHEN HE WAS HURLED OUT THE WINDOW.
b.) WINDU ONLY HANDLED PALPATINE'S FAKE LIGHTNING. HE NEVER CONFRONTED HIS SERIOUS LIGHTNING EXCEPT WHEN HE WAS HURLED OUT THE WINDOW.
b.) WINDU ONLY HANDLED PALPATINE'S FAKE LIGHTNING. HE NEVER CONFRONTED HIS SERIOUS LIGHTNING EXCEPT WHEN HE WAS HURLED OUT THE WINDOW.
I swear to Badabing, if you regurgitate that Revan was instantly destroyed without addressing my points again, or make the claim that Windu handled Palpatine's serious lightning, this conversation is over.
Ant:
1. Dooku grabbing at his neck is an instinctual reaction and doesn't necessarily imply conscious retaliation or defense via the Force, which Sidious would see as defiance, something Dooku certainly doesn't want to signal.
2. Palpatine may have feigned weakness in his begging and pleading; this doesn't suggest that he was holding back the actual lightning. Likewise, the novel is wrong when it asserts that Windu was being pushed back; you can clearly see him pushing his saber towards Sidious's face. Palpatine's deformation is further evidence that he was legitimately losing, unless if he was like consciously melting his own face for the show, which seems like a stretch.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Ant:1. Dooku grabbing at his neck is an instinctual reaction and doesn't necessarily imply conscious retaliation or defense via the Force, which Sidious would see as defiance, something Dooku certainly doesn't want to signal.
2. Palpatine may have feigned weakness in his begging and pleading; this doesn't suggest that he was holding back the actual lightning. Likewise, the novel is wrong when it asserts that Windu was being pushed back; you can clearly see him pushing his saber towards Sidious's face. Palpatine's deformation is further evidence that he was legitimately losing, unless if he was like consciously melting his own face for the show, which seems like a stretch.
2.) No, the quote holds that he acted weaker than he was, in other words, he wasn't using his full power. If he was acting weaker, he's not using his full lightning, that's just piecing two and two together with a spoon of logic.
So, wrong and wrong. 👆
No it doesn't. That's baseless speculation, whereas I'm observing the situation objectively. Dooku had no way of knowing if Palpatine wasn't going to kill him right then and there. He's blatantly going to try to escape. And it's not like Palpatine would be outraged by that - he was pleased when Maul attacked him back during his apprenticeship. Dooku attempting to break free from Palpatine would, at worst, make Palpatine laugh.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No it doesn't. That's baseless speculation, whereas I'm observing the situation objectively. Dooku had no way of knowing if Palpatine wasn't going to kill him right then and there. He's blatantly going to try to escape. And it's not like Palpatine would be outraged by that - he was pleased when Maul attacked him back during his apprenticeship. Dooku attempting to break free from Palpatine would, at worst, make Palpatine laugh.
Cause yeah, Palpatine's just ****ing petty and stupid enough that he's gonna ****ing murder Dooku for trying to get out of being choked like a *****, even though Dooku's the leader of the CIS.
I swear, people come up with such bullshit to act like there isn't a large gap in Force ability between Dooku, and Sidious/Yoda.
Originally posted by Tondemonai
Vitiate solidly. As soon as he put effort into his fight, he one-shotted Revan. Since there's no TP, he'll open with lightning, and after he acknowledges that the weak stuff doesn't do anything, he'll oneshot them.
Vitiate put effort into the fight from the very beginning, the text is explicit. Go back and reread it.