Bigotry Against Christians

Originally posted by ESB -1138
It's not necessarily Christians are going to those places but Christians who happen to live in those places and some of those places (such as North Korea) makes it difficult for them to even leave.

Regardless of circumstance, it doesn't change the fact that those are openly hostile areas for the most part. I'm not saying it's right (it certainly isn't), but it does skew things a bit.

Muslims are going to find problems and persecution if they go to a Christian based nation as well. It's just the way it is. From my understanding, most Religions preach tolerance, but it's followers fail to do so.

Originally posted by socool8520
Regardless of circumstance, it doesn't change the fact that those are openly hostile areas for the most part. I'm not saying it's right (it certainly isn't), but it does skew things a bit.

Muslims are going to find problems and persecution if they go to a Christian based nation as well. It's just the way it is. From my understanding, most Religions preach tolerance, but it's followers fail to do so.

Muslims are in plenty of Christian nations. Muslims even live in Israel which is heavily Jewish. Islam doesn't preach tolerance at all. And are all Christians perfect? No. But Jesus was. Are all Muslims terrorists? No. But Muhammad was.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Muslims are in plenty of Christian nations. Muslims even live in Israel which is heavily Jewish. Islam doesn't preach tolerance at all. And are all Christians perfect? No. But Jesus was. Are all Muslims terrorists? No. But Muhammad was.

And there isn't peaceful coexistence in Israel either. Also, you can find passages that relate to tolerance in the Islamic faith, but you seem biased so I guess that's that.

I think Emperordmb got it in one.

Christianity is deemed the root of a lot of bigotry in the West, and so many feel justified in attacking it.

I think they're 100% wrong, that Christianity is actually the biggest weapon against bigotry, and that it's wrong to attack it, but that's just me.

It's unfortunate that people are persecuted around the world for holding certain beliefs, but that doesn't change the fact that bad ideas can and should be challenged by reason and rationality. People should not be persecuted, but ideas should be challenged in a reasonable and rational manner.

It's not bigotry to reasonably and politely challenged unjustified ideas about the world, especially when such ideas are the source of so much suffering in the world.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

Does that make me an equal opportunity bigot?

Regards
DL

How is the Christian world (at least in the west) misogynistic?

I agree with DMB; that statement is incorrect. Christianity and Islam were intolerant, homophobic, and misogynistic to begin with. Their "development" (at least in the west) has only served to mellow the original interpretations of the holy texts. How exactly did you come to the conclusion that things have somehow gotten worse than they were before? Don't quote me on this I suppose, but I'm pretty sure that Christianity on the whole is more egalitarian now than it's ever been.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
How is the Christian world (at least in the west) misogynistic?

Ask the sitting Vice President, who cannot be in a room alone with any woman who is not his wife.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
How is the Christian world (at least in the west) misogynistic?

Well, there's the unequal pay for one.

Really... the wage gap myth? And even if there were a wage gap how is that tied to Christian ideology?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Ask the sitting Vice President, who cannot be in a room alone with any woman who is not his wife.

That would be like me citing a misogynistic atheist and saying that proves atheists are misogynistic.

The Bible itself had many misogynistic tones in it, putting men above women. This has carried forward for quite some time now. Do you truly believe women are treated equally to men? I don't think it is as big of a problem as it was before, but it is still there,

Originally posted by MovieFreak92
I think Emperordmb got it in one.

Christianity is deemed the root of a lot of bigotry in the West, and so many feel justified in attacking it.

I think they're 100% wrong, that Christianity is actually the biggest weapon against bigotry, and that it's wrong to attack it, but that's just me.

Well, speaking of the west, the Right being vocal proponants of Christianity probably has something to do with that, too.

If a majority of practicing muslim's started voting for the Republican party and adopted part of their rhetoric, I wonder if the Left would continue to argue in their religions defense..

Originally posted by cdtm
Well, speaking of the west, the Right being vocal proponants of Christianity probably has something to do with that, too.

If a majority of practicing muslim's started voting for the Republican party and adopted part of their rhetoric, I wonder if the Left would continue to argue in their religions defense..

Say what you will about challenging ideologies, and I agree they should be challenged... but some of the left's fixation with shitting on Christianity is a rather poor political gambit given that they risk alienating one of if not the largest demographic in the country.

Originally posted by Stigma
Well, it happens.

Surprisingly from people who think of themselves to be open-minded and liberal, yet are extremely vile when it comes to Christianity.

I am speaking from my own experience in the US too. I was very surprised how limited is the knowledge on Christianity among many liberal, highly educated people who consider themselves atheists.

👆

As was I. And about a number of other subjects, as well.

But the one thing everybody glosses over when it comes to politics, is that it's practiced by people.. And people are generally arrogant. And intelligence does not mitigate this (If anything, it makes you even more of an arse.)

Think Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs being very intelligent, yet also an obnoxious arsehole opportunist, which pretty much describes the brain trusts keeping poltics so polarized..

Originally posted by socool8520
The Bible itself had many misogynistic tones in it, putting men above women. This has carried forward for quite some time now.

What I have never in all of my days going to two different churches, going to a religious education class, living in a Christian household and a massive Christian extended family with a few nun great aunts and a priest uncle, interacting with various other Christians at my schools, joining a Christian group on campus, seeing Christians debate online say on youtube, etc. I have never witnessed a single Christian legitimately try and argue that women are lesser than men from a theological basis or seen Christians arguing from a Christian standpoint that women should be second class citizens with less rights.

Originally posted by socool8520
Do you truly believe women are treated equally to men? I don't think it is as big of a problem as it was before, but it is still there,

The wage gap has been debunked so hard no economist takes it seriously. When people purport "the wage gap" they just take the average of men and women's earnings without even remotely taking into account difference in hours worked, difference in career or position within that career, time taken off for maternity leave, difference in negotiation tactics, etc. which doesn't remotely prove women are getting paid less for the same work, in fact we've had laws against this for a while.

In fact at least in the UK and US iirc, more women are going to college, more women are going to grad school, and female college graduates under thirty are making more than their male counterparts.

When it comes to the law women are not second class citizens, and I would challenge you to cite a single right men have in western society that women still don't have.

Sure women are more sexualized, some people take women less seriously and view them as less strong overly emotional etc, women aren't as present as the lead characters in media such as movies, women are more often victims of rape and domestic abuse, certainly there are things women have rougher, but at the same time there are also things men have rougher. In a time of war men could be drafted against their will to fight and die for the government, men so much less often get custody of children in divorce, men are more often the victims of violent crimes, prostate cancer has much less funding than breast cancer, and men receive disproportionately larger sentences for the same crimes in comparison to women.

Now I'm not a ****ing MRA, because I think identity politics in modern western society is childishly narcissistic and inherently divisive, but it's obvious that both men and women have unique problems and it would be foolish to say that one of the sexes are treated as second class citizens or that one is oppressed while the other is the oppressor.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yes there were, and that's a reason why I am not a biblical inerrantist, however, that still doesn't prove that the actual practicing Christians in western culture have an overall problem with misogyny. I have heard several Christians cite the Bible in argumentation that homosexuality is wrong and that same sex marriage shouldn't be legal, and I have met numerous Christians who are closeminded, so I won't deny those are significant trends within the western Christian populace even if I've met plenty of good Christians who aren't intolerant or homophobic. It is completely fair to suggest there is a homophobic or closeminded trend in western Christianity, and the debate over gay marriage is an actual good example of this you can give me.

What I have never in all of my days going to two different churches, going to a religious education class, living in a Christian household and a massive Christian extended family with a few nun great aunts and a priest uncle, interacting with various other Christians at my schools, joining a Christian group on campus, seeing Christians debate online say on youtube, etc. I have never witnessed a single Christian legitimately try and argue that women are lesser than men from a theological basis or seen Christians arguing from a Christian standpoint that women should be second class citizens with less rights.

Not in every instance, and there are negative attitudes people have in society towards both sexes, but overall, yes women absolutely have equal rights and equal opportunities in western nations.

The wage gap has been debunked so hard no economist takes it seriously. When people purport "the wage gap" they just take the average of men and women's earnings without even remotely taking into account difference in hours worked, difference in career or position within that career, time taken off for maternity leave, difference in negotiation tactics, etc. which doesn't remotely prove women are getting paid less for the same work, in fact we've had laws against this for a while.

In fact at least in the UK and US iirc, more women are going to college, more women are going to grad school, and female college graduates under thirty are making more than their male counterparts.

When it comes to the law women are not second class citizens, and I would challenge you to cite a single right men have in western society that women still don't have.

Sure women are more sexualized, some people take women less seriously and view them as less strong overly emotional etc, women aren't as present as the lead characters in media such as movies, women are more often victims of rape and domestic abuse, certainly there are things women have rougher, but at the same time there are also things men have rougher. In a time of war men could be drafted against their will to fight and die for the government, men so much less often get custody of children in divorce, men are more often the victims of violent crimes, prostate cancer has much less funding than breast cancer, and men receive disproportionately larger sentences for the same crimes in comparison to women.

Men work more hazardous occupations, as well.

The hard truth is men at the top reap plenty of benefits, while men at the bottom or near the lower middle are treated as a disposable class. Plenty of protest over the former, but I've never heard a single liberal argue in support of the latter (Not since the unions lost all their power, anyways..)

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yes there were, and that's a reason why I am not a biblical inerrantist, however, that still doesn't prove that the actual practicing Christians in western culture have an overall problem with misogyny. I have heard several Christians cite the Bible in argumentation that homosexuality is wrong and that same sex marriage shouldn't be legal, and I have met numerous Christians who are closeminded, so I won't deny those are significant trends within the western Christian populace even if I've met plenty of good Christians who aren't intolerant or homophobic. It is completely fair to suggest there is a homophobic or closeminded trend in western Christianity, and the debate over gay marriage is an actual good example of this you can give me.

What I have never in all of my days going to two different churches, going to a religious education class, living in a Christian household and a massive Christian extended family with a few nun great aunts and a priest uncle, interacting with various other Christians at my schools, joining a Christian group on campus, seeing Christians debate online say on youtube, etc. I have never witnessed a single Christian legitimately try and argue that women are lesser than men from a theological basis or seen Christians arguing from a Christian standpoint that women should be second class citizens with less rights.

They never had to really. People of the Christian faith had already implemented women's status as lower early on. It was inherent for future generations. Women's suffrage was a thing. This was going on in western, Christian civilizations. A few quotes of the Bible gave them the right to restrict the rights of women. Submit to your husbands, Be silent, etc. It has been relatively recent that things have started to change. Admittedly, places like the EU are moving along quickly which is great, but those attitudes still exist.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Not in every instance, and there are negative attitudes people have in society towards both sexes, but overall, yes women absolutely have equal rights and equal opportunities in western nations.

Sure women are more sexualized, some people take women less seriously and view them as less strong overly emotional etc, women aren't as present as the lead characters in media such as movies, women are more often victims of rape and domestic abuse, certainly there are things women have rougher, but at the same time there are also things men have rougher. In a time of war men could be drafted against their will to fight and die for the government, men so much less often get custody of children in divorce, men are more often the victims of violent crimes, prostate cancer has much less funding than breast cancer, and men receive disproportionately larger sentences for the same crimes in comparison to women.

Yes, so do African Americans, but you and I both know that just because they have equal opportunities on paper, that does not make it so.

The draft thing in itself is exclusive. lol Sure we did it to protect women, but is that not misogynistic of us to assume they can't handle themselves in a war? We have guns now. the playing field has been somewhat leveled.

Originally posted by cdtm
Men work more hazardous occupations, as well.

The hard truth is men at the top reap plenty of benefits, while men at the bottom or near the lower middle are treated as a disposable class. Plenty of protest over the former, but I've never heard a single liberal argue in support of the latter (Not since the unions lost all their power, anyways..)

It is an issue that definitely should be brought up. It's really why I don't affiliate myself with a specific party. I feel like the two Primary parties have some good points and some bad points. I assume it's to hit their target demographic, but it is what it is I guess