Bigotry Against Christians

Originally posted by socool8520
They never had to really. People of the Christian faith had already implemented women's status as lower early on. It was inherent for future generations. Women's suffrage was a thing. This was going on in western, Christian civilizations. A few quotes of the Bible gave them the right to restrict the rights of women. Submit to your husbands, Be silent, etc. It has been relatively recent that things have started to change. Admittedly, places like the EU are moving along quickly which is great, but those attitudes still exist.

Plus, that doesn't prove that modern Christianity is motivating misogyny even if you can argue that the current attitudes in the culture came from Christianity in the past.

Originally posted by socool8520
Yes, so do African Americans, but you and I both know that just because they have equal opportunities on paper, that does not make it so.

And the one example you've actually provided me with is the wage gap which has been debunked so many times it's not even funny. In fact it's quite frankly disturbing that the wage gap myth continues to circulate.

We live in a society where women face unique issues, as do men, but we do not live in a society where women are oppressed.

Originally posted by socool8520
The draft thing in itself is exclusive. lol Sure we did it to protect women, but is that not misogynistic of us to assume they can't handle themselves in a war? We have guns now. the playing field has been somewhat leveled.

Sure you could argue part of that is misogynist, but that example is so much more harmful to men than women it's laughable to say that isn't an example where men have it significantly worse.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
It's been going on in every society, and where do you think those misogynistic attitudes came from? Do you truly think that without Christianity misogynistic attitudes in the past wouldn't have been a thing? Because it's so much more likely that those attitudes resulted from the (on average) greater physical strength and more assertive nature of masculine psychology.

Plus, that doesn't prove that modern Christianity is motivating misogyny even if you can argue that the current attitudes in the culture came from Christianity in the past.

I never said that other societies are not misogynistic, in fact I whole-heartedly agree that they are. More so than the west. You simply implied that the Western Christian society was not misogynistic. I don't believe that is wholly true.

Since I believe that the masculine psych was the creator of the Bible, I find them to be one and the same. A tool to push the male superiority on women. Again, we are correcting this, but the attitudes are still there.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Except quite a few examples that people give of African Americans being oppressed are even more applicable to men. People cite Black people being disproportionately unjustly killed by police relative to white people... men are even more disproportionately unjustly killed by police relative to women. People cite black people getting disproportionately larger sentences in court in comparison to white people, but the difference between the sentences for men and women is significantly larger than that between black and white people. People cite black people disproportionately living in poverty in comparison to white people, and the same comparison can be drawn with more men living in poverty than women.

This point was to merely point out that even though something is equal on paper, it is not so in practice.

Originally posted by socool8520
I never said that other societies are not misogynistic, in fact I whole-heartedly agree that they are. More so than the west. You simply implied that the Western Christian society was not misogynistic. I don't believe that is wholly true.

Since I believe that the masculine psych was the creator of the Bible, I find them to be one and the same. A tool to push the male superiority on women. Again, we are correcting this, but the attitudes are still there.

This point was to merely point out that even though something is equal on paper, it is not so in practice.

You know what they say about putting a group of people in a room, and one of them dominating the rest..

Is the bible a tool to subjugate women? Or is the subjegation of women at the time, a necessary pre-condition to subjugate the many?

If the bible proclaimed women and men as equals, would that have lead to restlessness and revolt, so the people on top of this institution wouldn't be able to maintain their control?

Looking at the world today though, I'd argue that religious function has sailed... Men and women are all chasing that american dream now, and only the biggest losers openly promote that old rhetoric (The winners are too busy installing graniite top counters and that new garden path for their grand kids next visit.. Something the very successful women of the family picked out herself, as her school teacher retireee idiot husband doesn't like to argue with her.. This is a family I actually know, btw. 🙂 )

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And the one example you've actually provided me with is the wage gap which has been debunked so many times it's not even funny. In fact it's quite frankly disturbing that the wage gap myth continues to circulate.

We live in a society where women face unique issues, as do men, but we do not live in a society where women are oppressed.

I looked at some articles and you are correct that the 79 cents to the dollar does not tell the whole story, but there are several articles that do hint at a bias in the workplace against women. Here are a couple I was reading.

https://thinkprogress.org/women-with-the-same-qualifications-as-men-get-passed-over-for-promotion-aea41dbea83d

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/23/gender-pay-gap-average-18-per-cent-less-uk-women

I find the idea that women with children are looked at unfavorably in the workforce but men are not. It seems pretty misogynistic to me. it's like we still expect women to stay in the home which is versed in the Christian Bible. Christianity being the major Religion influencing western civilization.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You aren't seriously arguing that the assumption that women can't handle themselves in war is more of an injustice towards women then literally forcing men to fight suffer and die in the horrors of war without their consent is towards men are you?

Sure you could argue part of that is misogynist, but that example is so much more harmful to men than women it's laughable to say that isn't an example where men have it significantly worse.

You're missing the point. It is exclusive. I didn't say that men don't ever draw the short end of the stick. That's clearly not true. What I'm saying is that that rule was made due to a misogynistic idea that we must protect women because they can not protect themselves.

Originally posted by cdtm
You know what they say about putting a group of people in a room, and one of them dominating the rest..

Is the bible a tool to subjugate women? Or is the subjegation of women at the time, a necessary pre-condition to subjugate the many?

If the bible proclaimed women and men as equals, would that have lead to restlessness and revolt, so the people on top of this institution wouldn't be able to maintain their control?

It is irrelevant in my opinion. They were still delegating women to a lesser level than men. To me, it would have made Christianity seem more based on the words of a Perfect being if equality had been a tenant from the very onset of the Religion.

Originally posted by cdtm
Looking at the world today though, I'd argue that religious function has sailed... Men and women are all chasing that american dream now, and only the biggest losers openly promote that old rhetoric (The winners are too busy installing graniite top counters and that new garden path for their grand kids next visit.. Something the very successful women of the family picked out herself, as her school teacher retireee idiot husband doesn't like to argue with her.. This is a family I actually know, btw. 🙂 )

I have stated that their has been progress, but that we are not where we should be on this issue just yet as is the case with racism and religious tolerance.

Originally posted by socool8520
It is irrelevant in my opinion. They were still delegating women to a lesser level than men. To me, it would have made Christianity seem more based on the words of a Perfect being if equality had been a tenant from the very onset of the Religion.

[QUOTE=16229219]Originally posted by socool8520
[B] Looking at the world today though, I'd argue that religious function has sailed... Men and women are all chasing that american dream now, and only the biggest losers openly promote that old rhetoric (The winners are too busy installing graniite top counters and that new garden path for their grand kids next visit.. Something the very successful women of the family picked out herself, as her school teacher retireee idiot husband doesn't like to argue with her.. This is a family I actually know, btw. 🙂 )

I have stated that their has been progress, but that we are not where we should be on this issue just yet as is the case with racism and religious tolerance. [/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm asking for a trend, you're giving me one person who isn't representative of Christianity as a whole, and not explaining how that's tied to Christianity.

That would be like me citing a misogynistic atheist and saying that proves atheists are misogynistic.

It would not be like that at all, because the atheist is not citing his atheism as the reason for his misogynistic beliefs, whereas Mike Pence is citing his Christianity as the reason he cannot be alone in a room with a woman who is not his wife. I cannot make sense of the nonsensical, hence, why I told you to read his explanation yourself.