Just a quick question: How do you know it "knocked out Malgus for a while?" Kao directs it into him, then immediately slashes Vindican's helmet off. It then cuts to another scene for a total of 5 seconds, then returns to the battle, and all 3 of them are still duking it out.
Is there a written version of the fight or something?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol I'm saying Luke's TK >> Valk's FL, so who cares about the latter?
These are two entirely different expressions of power. And FL is so hard to counter that even the most powerful Jedi Masters struggle in this respect. And Valkorion's FL is at the very top.
Showings of TK shall be compared with showings of TK. And I am sure that Valkorion's TK would be beastly as well but he is not into it much.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I can pull it up on my laptop later but he muses that he could rip the hulls off cruisers and destroy their cannons if he wanted to but won't cause light side and all. It was in like Shadows of the Empire or somewhere.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The fortress had its own hanger bay and touched the beach, lol. And Luke crushed it to dust after lifting all of it up at once.
And as I pointed out to you, a MID-TIER TOR era Jedi collapsed two buildings in a fight. A HIGH-TIER should be capable of replicating Luke's feat.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Oh puh-lease about Ziost. He needed a nexus, prep time, the power of the planetary population, etc. Also talk about apples and oranges because obviously Luke isn't going to do Ziost.
When Valkorion came to Ziost, he was absolutely lacking in power. By orchestrating conflict and chaos, he was able to draw strength from all the deaths and recover. He devastated Ziost soon after restoring his strength. And it happened very quickly.
Every second planet is a nexus in Star Wars. Per this logic, many of Luke's and Palpatine's feats can be attributed to nexus environments as well. Don't push your luck with this line of logic.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Luke is not only more powerful but he's a really good close quarters combatant - so Valk can't just be more powerful, he has to be so dominating Luke never gets close to him. Yet your best combat or non-sketchy feat for him is disabling some ships.
Yes, Luke is very good in close-quarters combat but Valkorion has allies on his side. Valkorion's powers will not only worn Luke out but his allies will capitalize on this opportunity.
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
^Lmao.It's like these guys want a concession desperately.
1. Unsubstantiated Turbolaser-related feats
2. Apples and Oranges comparison
3. Sticking to hyperboles
4. Misconceptions about Valkorion's showings
You and others do not have genuine arguments. Mostly bullshit.
The feats you guys love to harp about are largely MID-TIER or HIGH-TIER in TOR era.
The TK feat:
There were many options, of course. He could reach out with the Force and damage the ships' control surfaces, crippling them. He might even be able to wrench off whole hull plates or deform the weapons emplacements, tearing them apart with the Force alone.
Hand of Thrawn I: Specter of the Past
@Legend:
- You can't seriously accuse me of "apples to oranges" for comparing TK to lightning (even though the former tends to have less destructive vistas so I'm handicapping my side) and then talk about ***Ziost***, lmao.
- Luke is a reliable narrator not known to boast about his own powers, so it's perfectly reasonable and in line with his fortress feat.
- We know the fortress scrapes the clouds but also touches the beach and holds a hanger bay, seems like your TOR characters collapsing buildings doesn't match turning a fortress to dust like that.
- Lol you don't know how Vitiate's amps balance with his being weak and not all planets are equally strong in the Force.
- You still haven't given me any relevant feats for Valkorion to match Luke's. I haven't given you close to all of his best ones, while you lean on disabling some ships and then a totally unrelated ritual one right after accusing *TK* of being too dissimilar.
LeGenD when r u gonna debunk my essay u said u would lol concession accepted lol
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t641234.html
Sheevites win again
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The TK feat:There were many options, of course. He could reach out with the Force and damage the ships' control surfaces, crippling them. He might even be able to wrench off whole hull plates or deform the weapons emplacements, tearing them apart with the Force alone.
Hand of Thrawn I: Specter of the Past
Valkorion's apprentice Exal Kressh destroyed lot of stuff on a massive Space Colony while fighting young Teneb Kel. She even destroyed the power core of the Space Colony, which started a chain reaction and the Colony fell apart. Heck, Teneb Kel rearranged some debris of this Colony in the outer space to make his way to a speeder in order to escape.
Seriously, man?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
- You can't seriously accuse me of "apples to oranges" for comparing TK to lightning (even though the former tends to have less destructive vistas so I'm handicapping my side) and then talk about ***Ziost***, lmao.
FL and TK are two entirely different expressions of power.
Description of FL:-
Called "Sith lightning," these charges cause excruciating pain and weaken life, and it is a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters to deflect such bursts.
From The Ultimate Visual Guide
Force lightning causes excruciating pain as it weakens an individual's life, and is nearly impossible to deflect.
From Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
Description of TK:-
Commonly known as a Jedi's object movement power, telekinesis is more accurately described as a manipulation of the Force to control the direction of objects through space. Jedi utilize this talent not only to push, pull, and lift objects, but also to redirect projectiles and guide their starships through combat.
From Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
I am sorry but purpose of FL is vastly different from that of TK.
If a stream of FL is destroying inanimate objects, raw power poured into it is simply too great. However, this is not its intended purpose.
Conversely, Telekinesis is suitable for affecting inanimate objects.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
- Luke is a reliable narrator not known to boast about his own powers, so it's perfectly reasonable and in line with his fortress feat.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
- We know the fortress scrapes the clouds but also touches the beach and holds a hanger bay, seems like your TOR characters collapsing buildings doesn't match turning a fortress to dust like that.
Have you played SWTOR? Your personal stronghold has a hanger bay and many rooms. Holistically, the stronghold is not very big. An average building is relatively much bigger.
Collapsing two buildings during the course of a fight, is not something we get to see everyday. This is a fantastic showing under the circumstances, and from a MID-TIER of TOR-era at most.
I am sorry but Luke's showing while in meditative stance is not all that fantastic as it is cranked up to be.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
- Lol you don't know how Vitiate's amps balance with his being weak and not all planets are equally strong in the Force.
Exar Kun was barely able to sustain his intangible existence on Yavin IV until he came into contact with living beings. And this planet is counted among the most powerful nexus environments in the galaxy. Your faith in nexus environment to do the heavy-lifting is misplaced.
When Valkorion resided there, he needed chaos, conflict, death and destruction to recover his strength. Lucky for him, Revan brought all that to Yavin IV. Still, conflict on Yavin IV was not sufficient for Valkorion to restore his strength to pre-ritual level. This is why he created another conflict on Ziost.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
- You still haven't given me any relevant feats for Valkorion to match Luke's. I haven't given you close to all of his best ones, while you lean on disabling some ships and then a totally unrelated ritual one right after accusing *TK* of being too dissimilar.
Valkorion's showings on Ziost trump anything from Luke Skywalker in the context of actualized power and raw potency, period.
---
@Azronger
You will get a response one day. But not today or anytime soon due to my schedule.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
lmao I call you out on your hypocrisy on saying TK and FL can't be compared but then bragging about Ziost, and you respond by lecturing me about the differences between TK and FL and completely ignoring the hypocrisy.
Actualized Power is the key term.
I am talking in the context of "actualized power" while citing Ziost because Valkorion not only showcased a number of abilities over there but multi-tasked to the extreme and devastated the planet in the end. The entire development convey a message that how much Valkorion had grown since the days of Nathema; an event of similar proportions in which 8000 Sith participated. Valkorion's understanding of the Dark Side had grown by leaps and bounds since coupled with his raw power.
Unlike you, I am not into comparing apples and oranges.
Luke and Valkorion are not expected to fight in this manner:
1. TK
2. FL
3. Dicking
They are expected to bring their "actualized power" to bear against each other in whatever ways they deem necessary and Valkorion has clear advantage. Unfortunately for you, Valkorion is potent in a great many techniques and has numerous options to exercise.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You only sort of repeat that Krayt was sort of useful in that fight, so I suppose Meetra and Scourge have parity with Revan now or something.
Krayt was far more useful in that fight than you're giving him credit for, which I suppose is on purpose. He saved Luke's ass and held off Abeloth personally on more than one occasion. Was Luke more impressive? Certainly. That renders your point moot though, because Krayt was just being smart.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Anyway it's irrelevant because Murr can only be scaled with a dying Krayt.
No, Muur's spirit who was further hindered by Celeste Morne interrupting and fighting his possession was outright superior in power overall. Krayt dying isn't nearly as disadvantageous as all of that. Krayt claims his power multiplied after death, yet Muur we know for a fact isn't as powerful as he was in his prime. They both are more powerful in their prime.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Thanks for reminding me actually, cause now we can scale everyone else down by their being so weak next to Valk.
Who is undoubtedly DE Sidious tier. 👆
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Show me evidence Valk can put Luke down in the few meters he has to work with then. Disabling a few freighters? Killing Darth Marr? Luke tanked UnuThul's turbolaser bending trillions member hivemind amped TK to the point where not even a black hole could've moved him (can demonstrate literal description from laptop), successfully closed the distance with Abeloth avatars several times, can crush island sized fortresses to dust with raw Tk decades before his prime, etc. Valk has nothing on him in feats, and it gets even more one sided with powerscaling or accolades.
Valkorion has immense esoteric abilities that Luke is vulnerable to. He can also create mass illusions of himself. He also has nine teammates to use to buy time.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol we're going by the OP's stipulations for Luke (and in the thread title), or should we just say the DM's got taken out by random strike teams and call it even?
The Dread Masters were so powerful that they could resurrect each other, and others, from the dead. You have absolutely no idea how ridiculous their feats are.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Their main weapon is TP, and there's no way they're TP'ing Luke so who cares about them? Plus they prob have shit reflexes and could be ragdolled given Luke ragdolls Caedus twice, and Caedus is above anyone on team 2 sans Valkorion, being at the least on Revan's tier.
Shit reflexes, which is why they can teleport without gesturing. I love how you're trying to make the evidence of absence argument.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Frankly, I can't think of a non-entity who ragdolled someone as powerful as Caedus like that ever before.
Valkorion dominating Outlander, Arcann and Vaylin casually and simultaneously is easily more impressive.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
She can't fight, just like her dad. FotJ Abeloth has far more raw power than Valk and Vaylin but she still can't easily kill Luke. They can't win close quarters even if they could beat him in a Force fight, which they can't either.
She can't fight, because you say she can't. That's funny. Vaylin overloading the Sanitarium to the point that the mountainous complex was reduced to dust, from orbit, casually, indicates that she is incredibly powerful and almost certainly Revan tier.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Pre-NJO Luke could disable actual cruiser sized warships just with TK, Arcann tanking an unconcentrated "fleet" (read: small freighters) killer is nothing.
They weren't small freighters. 😂
The lightning that overwhelmed the ships and caused crippling damage was merely the excess lightning from the FLS. Arcann was tanking the most concentrated and powerful portions of the FLS.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol surviving a fall but getting injured from it is sub-AotC Anakin, who did that casually while guiding himself to a specific target without injury.
That's the most hilarious rebuttal you've made thus far. Arcann had expended his energy defending himself from the FLS before Valkorion upped the output which blasted Arcann clear the fvck out. Also, the height from which Arcann unconsciously fell was far, far higher than Anakin using the Force to guide himself down to lower lanes of traffic.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
How do you know Malak >>> Murr?
Ajunta Pall tells Revan that the source of their strength was the Star Map in Sadow's tomb. Malak mastered the power of the Star Forge, an infinitely more powerful source of Dark side energy than the Star maps.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
How do you know Murr ~ Reborn Krayt? Her weakened spirit was above a dying Krayt but you have no way to know who was weakened more, lmao.
Already answered this previously.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Or I could say FotJ Luke > LotF Luke > NJO Luke > DE Sidious > RotJ Sidious > RotS Sidious > TPM Sidious > Plagueis > Vitiate, seems like a much more impressive chain to me.
You have absolutely no evidence suggesting Plagueis is > Vitiate. In fact, Valkorion's feats absolutely defecate on Plagueis'. His death caused a shockwave in the Force that Satele Shan was almost knocked out by. Satele Shan being Darth Marr's only equal amongst the Jedi. All other Force users less powerful than her would've been knocked out. That's at least millions of Jedi and Sith.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Oh dear.Actualized Power is the key term.
I am talking in the context of "actualized power" while citing Ziost because Valkorion not only showcased a number of abilities over there but multi-tasked to the extreme and devastated the planet in the end. The entire development convey a message that how much Valkorion had grown since the days of Nathema; an event of similar proportions in which 8000 Sith participated. Valkorion's understanding of the Dark Side had grown by leaps and bounds since coupled with his raw power.
Unlike you, I am not into comparing apples and oranges.
Luke and Valkorion are not expected to fight in this manner:
1. TK
2. FL
3. DickingThey are expected to bring their "actualized power" to bear against each other in whatever ways they deem necessary and Valkorion has clear advantage. Unfortunately for you, Valkorion is potent in a great many techniques and has numerous options to exercise.
Lol @ you inventing a strawman where we have Luke and Valk do rounds of TK and then FL, rather than Luke having better combat applicable feats.
Valkorion's apprentice Exal Kressh destroyed lot of stuff on a massive Space Colony while fighting young Teneb Kel. She even destroyed the power core of the Space Colony, which started a chain reaction and the Colony fell apart. Heck, Teneb Kel rearranged some debris of this Colony in the outer space to make his way to a speeder in order to escape.
That doesn't compare with ripping armored warship hulls off, kek.
Luke's actual combat feats are far better than Valkorion's, and I haven't even bothered to bring up some of his more impressive ones yet. Like you know, being described as immovable to even a supermassive black hole. You have provided exactly one combat feat, which is disabling some ships. You can try to puff up these ships all you want, the fact of the matter is that they are not cruisers and Valk didn't actually damage their armor. It's a B-tier feat and you're so obsessed with it, which leads me to think you have nothing else.
I have seen clouds hovering only 30 feet above ground.
🙄
Trolling aside, can you show me which of Valk's feats compares?
Touching a beach implies that the building in question was located near one.
It refutes your claim that the fortress only went above the clouds because it was already on a mountain or something.
Collapsing two buildings during the course of a fight, is not something we get to see everyday. This is a fantastic showing under the circumstances, and from a MID-TIER of TOR-era at most.
What, how does collapsing two buildings compare unless if these were like Coruscant skyscrapers or something?
Completely misleading and disingenuous argument.Exar Kun was barely able to sustain his intangible existence on Yavin IV until he came into contact with living beings. And this planet is counted among the most powerful nexus environments in the galaxy. Your faith in nexus environment to do the heavy-lifting is misplaced.
When Valkorion resided there, he needed chaos, conflict, death and destruction to recover his strength. Lucky for him, Revan brought all that to Yavin IV. Still, conflict on Yavin IV was not sufficient for Valkorion to restore his strength to pre-ritual level. This is why he created another conflict on Ziost.
And you don't know whether the conflict on Ziost + nexus + Ziost's populace + prep balances out his weakened state or not. Exar Kun only had one of those.
Valkorion's showings on Ziost trump anything from Luke Skywalker in the context of actualized power and raw potency, period.
Except...it doesn't for all the aforementioned reasons? And what do you expect, that Luke's going to go wipe out planets for the loltz?
In actualized power, a Luke decades before his peak only needed some "unlocked potential" from an untrained Leia's battle meditation that many sources on the fight don't even bother to mention to overwhelm Palpatine, who did more damage to Ziost on a whim with no need for spooky circumstances.