So essentially:
1. Unbalancing the Force to the point that it flees you and then immaculately conceives a Forceful being, a literal in-universe deus ex machina, for the sole purposes of stopping you, in accordance to an ancient prophecy regarding the most cosmically pivotal moment in the Star Wars mythos, is more impressive than anything Vitiate/Valkorion has ever done. We know this because the Force never bothered to conceive a Forceful being to fight him.
2. Meditating together for a few months is not as heavy of an amp as having thousands of years to plot on one of the most powerful nexuses in the galaxy, and then requiring that nexus, the energies of biological life in the galaxy, and then the energies of a galactic war, to pull off.
3. Following the death of his master, Darth Sidious receives a massive power boost that shakes the cosmos, has the ancient sith spirits singing him praises from across space and time, has the dark side itself annointing him, and generates a greater unbalance in the Force than said previous meditation.
4. Darth Sidious by TCW has create a dark cloud of the Force that spreads across the entire galaxy, which has allowed him to diminish the precognitive abilities of 10,000 Jedi, including Master Yoda.
5. Darth Sidious by Dark Empire is a walking Force nexus whose very presence distorts space-time.
6. Darth Sidious by Dark Empire can conjure from pure willpower storms of the dark side capable of ripping the surfaces off of worlds, and which threaten to "consume all of space".
7. In his final death, every Jedi who had ever died teamed up to keep Sidious from returning.
8. Beyond all of these clear indicators for Palpatine's superiority, there is more than one statement of it that seems to extend beyond past sith lords, and he just generally has far superior feats, from burying the Lusankya to bending lightsaber blades. Valkorion, meanwhile, does everything that's really impressive on a nexus with prep, and otherwise has the showing of...killing Darth Marr (but that was on a nexus too...)
Sidious wins 👆
Originally posted by Beniboybling
#1First, let's do some fact checking, and remind ourselves that Dromund Kaas was already strong in the dark side prior to the Emperor arriving there:
Dromund Kaas might be strong in the Dark Side before Vitiate's experiments but this statement doesn't supports your point of view in the slightest. Let us dissect it:
The powerful electrical storms were a physical manifestation of the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet
The aforementioned revelation is pointing towards this development:
Power hungry, the Emperor spent great energy discovering and perfecting esoteric rites of darkness – rituals that wrecked the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas, transforming the ionosphere into a swirling electric storm.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Holonet
- centuries earlier.
Now, the bigger picture;
The powerful electrical storms were a physical manifestation of the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet—a power that had brought the Sith back here a millennium before, when their very survival had been in doubt.
The aforementioned revelation is pointing towards Vitiate; the root-cause of seemingly endless electrical storms in Dromund Kaas and migration of Sith to Dromund Kaas. He is that power.
Philosophy is not your cup of tea, perhaps! mmm
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And in regards to how strong? Well, simply take note of the fact that thousands of years later, Sidious considered the "transcendent vortex of energy" Plagueis created on Aborah to be akin to something "he would have expected to encounter only on Korriban or some other Sith world."At which point said Sith planets, such as Ziost, Korriban and indeed Dromund Kaas, had lost much of their luster since the Sith golden age, or in other words, Kaas would have been perhaps more than a "transcendent vortex of energy" when Vitiate discovered it.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The fact that Vitiate was seemingly drawn to this planet because of its tremendous power (see above) only reflecting his desire to harness it,
The Emperor chose worlds strong in the dark side for his academies–locations where his influence was strongest, where he could form a bond with his would-be guardsmen.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Imperial Guard Academy"
Originally posted by Beniboybling
equally telling is the fact the Emperor chose to perform his Sith sorcery within the walls of the Dark Temple, a Sith tomb he had constructed that's architecture typically enhanced and focused the power of the dark side:Moreover the Sith Citadel also appeared to be a focal point for the planet's dark energy:
Which begs the question in both cases of why, when this nexus is supposedly oh so out grown and insignificant, and of course the answer is simple, because it was not outgrown, and Vitiate, being a reasonably intelligent fellow, instead sought to harness it. 👆
Secondly we have the insinuation that because it was of "great expense" to the Emperor to bolster said nexus that somehow he wouldn't have been able to benefit from it? Well that logic is frankly incomplete and really doesn't follow on when we consider that Vitiate had ample time to recover whatever was lost and then proceed to reap what he had sown.
More importantly, no where it is stated and/or implied that Vitiate used such structures to facilitate his effort towards environmental corruption of Dromund Kaas.
For example, the Dark Temple became a powerful nexus of Dark Side energy as unintended side effect of Vitiate's dark practices within:
The temple became a nexus of dark side energy as the Emperor performed rituals within, drawing strength and knowledge from his captives.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
- Not the other way around.
Now, what kind of dark practices were those? Left to our imagination.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
#2Well first of all let's interrogate the evidence of this:
Which is said by a subjective source. And here in lies are first problem, for though the Wrath is personally familiar with the power of the Dread Masters, they have never fought nor even been in the presence of Vitiate, and therefore knows very little of his capabilities bar exaggerated legend and rumour.Or rather, from an in-universe perspective, the Wrath's opinion is pretty baseless.
But let's say AP that I throw you a bone regardless and we infer authorial intent. Does the fact that their power is "insignificant" in comparison to his own really make their power insignificant to him as a resource? Well no. Not when Vitiate went to significant pains to siphon the power of those far lesser to them, such as his Hands:And such as spirits of those enemies he entombed in the Dark Temple:Then there's also Revan:Who'd I'd remind you both the Wrath and Darth Marr also seems to be of the opinion is insignificant in comparison towards:Let that all sink even for a moment, particularly the fact that even the lowliest of the Emperor's servants, the kind that the Wrath effortlessly strangulated is still seemingly worth Vitiate actively drawing strength from. And yet a vast power of a planetary nexus isn't? Yeah not likely.
1. The Hands were virtually immortal just like Lord Scourge
2. Sith spirits
3. Revan's life was also prolonged through arcane devices
Such subjects were unlikely to perish while being subjected to Force Drain powers by virtue of their condition and/or circumstances. In case of Revan, he was able to revitalize his strength by drawing energy from the Force apparition of Meetra Surik that lurked nearby. Compare this to the fate of crew of Ravager who were slowly succumbing to similar pressures.
As for the Emperor's Wrath being able to manhandle the Hands with his powers; do not forget that Vitiate's siphoning effort left them weak and vulnerable.
---
Vitiate is stronger than the Dread Masters collective and/or Revan. His showings on Dromund Kaas and Ziost are testament to this fact. If you think otherwise, kindly make a case for it.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
#3Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but with this you've essentially nailed the final coffin in your own case here. Let's just consider for a moment that by absorbing the power of a planetary nexus Vitiate "extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force."
Or rather demonstrates pretty compelling proof that Valkorion can achieve vast gains from a planetary nexus after all. "But teh were 8000 Sith Lords!" you say "and Valkorion is much stronker now!"
But then you went and raised Ziost as well, oh dear, let's review:
More considerable gains for Valkorion from harnessing the power that can be from the energies of a planet. 👆
Granted he drained the whole thing dry in both instances but think relatively for a moment, if Valkorion consuming a planet strong in the dark side is going to result in a permanent and considerable, if not vast transformation in power, him simply drawing on one is going to confer some sizeable amps, and he's certainly not at a point where that kind of power is mere trinkets and baubles to him. Not in the slightest.
Devastation of Medriaas (i.e. the Nathema event) was possible through significant assistance (i.e. 8000 Force-sensitive beings). Vitiate wasn't strong enough to pull it off on his own back then. Not even close.
However, Vitiate tremendously benefited from the Nathema event; the reservoir of energy gained from it, increased his potential to a significant degree (i.e. vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force) and also prolonged his life for indefinite period (i.e. corporeal immortality). These gains are similar to those of Darth Plagueis by virtue of Midichlorian Manipulation but relatively more profound.
However, Vitiate's power-progression did not halt at that point in time; he continued to grow in power in later years by virtue of siphoning the energy of scores of his subjects and honing his talents in the Dark Side. And eventually:
Devastation of Ziost = a demonstration of the fact that Vitiate was powerful enough to pull a Nathema-like event on his own at some point in history. Therefore, Revan's assessment was correct.
However, it is important to understand that devastation of Ziost was originally intended for full recovery. However, Vitiate gained more from the experience; he became more powerful than ever before. Therefore, Valkorion is planetary-killer+ and does not needs an anchor (i.e. biological or environmental) to sustain his presence. He is a proper entity now.
However, there is more to this entire story arc; suppression of Vaylin's Force-sensitivity, simultaneously. Multi-tasking in the nutshell.