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How much more powerful is Caedus than Vader?
As per the inner flap of Invincible, Jacen has a greater mastery of the Force than his grandfather. Do you believe this? Is the disparity massive, or does "command of the Force" infer something other than raw power? If Jacen is better than Vader, by what extent is he better? 10%, 1% 0.1% ? Is this differnce of power reflected in feats?
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
What's your reasoning? Just a guess isn't really a valid statement. Why is Caedus more powerful than Vader by a decent degree? What feats distinguish the difference?
I mean, according to the so-called "blurbs", he's rivalling Vader prior to a pretty distinct power-growth, so... yeah there's that.
Going directly off of blurbs here, BTW. Jacen doesn't have any clear limit other than he's below Luke, because most, if not all, his showings are highly circumstantial.
Originally posted by MythLord
[B]I mean, according to the so-called "blurbs", he's rivalling Vader prior to a pretty distinct power-growth, so... yeah there's that.[/i]
where?
Going directly off of blurbs here, BTW. Jacen doesn't have any clear limit other than he's below Luke
Most characters don't have any clear limits in regards to their power of the Force. Does that mean a featless Jedi could rival Galen marek's telekinesis, because the latter has established his limits while the former doesn't? According to the blurb, Caedus has a greater command of the Force than his Grandad, but there is no clear distinction between how much greater he is, in which case we differ to their body of feats and accolades. All this tells me is you have no reason to believe Caedus superior to his grandfather "by a decent degree" other than gut feeling.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
What is the quote/blurb for Caedus > Vader, btw?
Taken from Legacy of the Force: InvincibleIt's a plan that will be as difficult and dangerous to execute as it is daring. For Caedus is a scion of both the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines whose command of the Force surpasses even that of his grandfather Darth Vader. There is only one who is bound by destiny to stand against him in what will surely be a duel to the death, only one with an outside chance of bringing down the dark lord who was once Jacen Solo.
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Just a notch above him, Caedus knows techniques Vader's probably never heard off then again Vader's shown proficiency in areas that Caedus hasn't.
The number of techniques Caedus has - whether they are of use in combat or not, is greater than Vader's. The premier power he's shown that Vader can not cast, is the ability to produce electricity with his fingertips, which is prevented by the cybernetic circuitry and metal making up Vader's hand. It is certainly possible that "command of the Force" refers to the ways in which the Force can be commanded. In this case, Caedus can wield the Force in ways Vader can not. But for the Force powers both of them have shown capable of, Vader has superior feats in every category. Edit: except for perhaps telepathy.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
where?
The Publisher's Summary of Legacy of the Force: Betrayal have Luke dreaming of Jacen as a being he likened to Darth Vader in power and ruthlessness. Then publisher summaries for some of the other sources(like Tempest, Exile, Fury) note Jacen's growing more powerful by the day. And the series of novels takes place over the course of a year and a half.
Anakin Skywalker, someone who's potential is passed down to Jacen, in less time has grown by a "vast" amount, so it's not hard to see Jacen doing the same.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Most characters don't have any clear limits in regards to their power of the Force. Does that mean a featless Jedi could rival Galen marek's telekinesis, because the latter has established his limits while the former doesn't? According to the blurb, Caedus has a greater command of the Force than his Grandad, but there is no clear distinction between how much greater he is, in which case we differ to their body of feats and accolades. All this tells me is you have no reason to believe Caedus superior to his grandfather "by a decent degree" other than gut feeling.
Well, if you're going to play with strawmen. Holistically speaking, it's obvious a random padawan isn't above Galen Marek. What I mean is we know Caedus should stand tall ahead of Vader, but it's unclear to what degree. Comparing and contrasting feats it would seem Vader is superior, but with the fact that most ,if not all, of Jacen's feats by the time he's Caedus are done with barely any effort -- and a quote championing him as Vader's better exists -- there's no reason to assume the "hur dur, featz only!" approach would apply in this situation.
Once we get past that, Caedus is just better as per canon(if you wish to take Publisher Summaries as such).
And if you wanna play feats only, Caedus performed better against a pissed off GM Luke than Vader did against a pissed off RotJ Luke(I believe Beware the Power of the Dark Side even has Luke moving faster than Vader's perception or something along those lines).
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Vader couldn't even stand properly against a pissed off RotJ Luke.Caedus lost decisively to essentially prime Luke, but still put him in a bacta tank for a week.
And that might be a valid comparison, when you completely ignore the circumstances of the events in the post, which have been addressed in others. Regardless, everyone and their mothers puts up a fight against Luke - the only reason Caedus lasted as long as he did was because of Luke's decision not to rag doll him on the spot. Luke is simply too inconstant to be used as a measuring stick, unless you want to elevate Dessan's, Lumiya's, random Krislaws, Kuellers, Brakiss, random Dark Tribe Sith, Vong Bots etc, you need to find a better measuring stick. Do you have anything else?