Originally posted by Beniboybling
I would add to that that Sidious also enjoys revelling in his own strength and power, and in that respect the idea that he would seek to test his limits is perfectly feasible.Really I'm seeing increasingly fewer reasons regarding Sidious' ability to perform the feat or willingness to do so. Only whether or not this is what the statement is saying, or intended to say.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
...Who says he knew he was capable of such a feat before doing it?Why?
Because the Emperor is above such petty power plays? lolIt's about as exciting as navigating the minutiae of Republic bureaucracy and parliamentary procedure for 20 years. Tedious work is kinda Sheev's thing.
^ There is precedent of Palpatine enjoying pulling shit over on people. He doesn't require an audience or someone to be in on the joke. The text says his enjoyment derives from people not knowing about the deception in question.
TK'ing an object as massive and as powerful as a Super Star Destroyer and then compelling the population to forget the act and then entertaining himself with their ignorance and helplessness is something I could very easily see him doing.
I've no idea, nor do I need one.
Because the opportunity to run like hell didn't present itself?
So, to recap: Palpatine is a malignant narcissist who has a penchant for self-aggrandizement and grandiosity. Burying a Super Star Destroyer and mindraping the witnesses is suitably grandiose. He may have done so in front of a small informed audience, Vader or the Inquisitor, or he might have done it in total privacy, but you've yet to prove that he requires an audience to do something grandiose and superfluous.
There's literally no objection you've offered that I haven't addressed lol.
Well he didn't do it so that's irrelevant but regardless I'm pretty sure Palpatine knows what he's capable of.
Because it would be completely pointless and he could make his point far easier by gesturing and bringing Vader to his knees.
The difference is Palpatine gets a pay off as he watches his schemes come to fruition and his political opponents thrown out of office or power lessened. Either the political opponents Palpatine just downgraded are aware or Palpatine's confidants and allies involved in the scheme are. Either way he gets validation.
Same as above. Sidious knows he'll eventually be able to reveal himself and that all of the Jedi will realize how naive and blind they'd been to have had the Sith Lord walking among them all this time.
Yes you do because your basis is that he likes to commit grandiose actions without the need for validation when he's never shown that before.
What, Maul couldn't have broken the window and jumped out with his brother? If he thought Sidious could win at any time he could have at least made the attempt.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Well he didn't do it so that's irrelevant but regardless I'm pretty sure Palpatine knows what he's capable of.
But he did do it, though.
And people only discover their abilities and shortcomings through testing, trial and error, experimentation, etc.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Because it would be completely pointless and he could make his point far easier by gesturing and bringing Vader to his knees.
Spoiler:
Kinda like how he could have done that with Maul and Savage rather than fight them blade-to-blade?
Sidious employs all manner of methods to demonstrate his superiority. Physical attacks, mind games, etc.
They're not mutually exclusive. 👆
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The difference is Palpatine gets a pay off as he watches his schemes come to fruition and his political opponents thrown out of office or power lessened. Either the political opponents Palpatine just downgraded are aware or Palpatine's confidants and allies involved in the scheme are. Either way he gets validation.
Your ignorance of politics and statecraft is glaring, so I'll give you a crash course: actual governments have labyrinthine and complex political systems that must be navigated every day by a vast multitude of actors. Governments also have to actually govern, as do the actors involved. Meaning Palpatine isn't just scheming and manipulating every second of every day, he actually has to work as Chancellor. Meaning he isn't working in every instance directly towards the Grand Plan.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Same as above. Sidious knows he'll eventually be able to reveal himself and that all of the Jedi will realize how naive and blind they'd been to have had the Sith Lord walking among them all this time.
Actually, Sidious never intended to fight or reveal himself to Yoda on Coruscant. The original goal was for Yoda to die on Kashyyyk, courtesy of Order 66, with the role Palpatine played in all of it unknown.
So... nah. He apparently just likes being able to dupe people sometimes.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes you do because your basis is that he likes to commit grandiose actions without the need for validation when he's never shown that before.
I literally just handed you an excerpt that says Palpatine was enjoying Yoda's total ignorance of what was going on. So no, I don't need to entertain your inane line of inquiry.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What, Maul couldn't have broken the window and jumped out with his brother? If he thought Sidious could win at any time he could have at least made the attempt.
What, Sidious doesn't have legs with which to pursue them?
Or the power to simply drag them back inside the killbox?
mmm
You might as well concede.
Speaking of politics and Palpatine, I'm genuinely curious as to how he did work the angle part of being the Emperor. Like we see him as Chancellor with doing those duties, but as Emperor? I can't really recall anything, other then I guess the small scene in ROTJ in his throne room with those advisers next to him, but we never really see what happens.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I would add to that that Sidious also enjoys revelling in his own strength and power, and in that respect the idea that he would seek to test his limits is perfectly feasible.Really I'm seeing increasingly fewer reasons regarding Sidious' ability to perform the feat or willingness to do so. Only whether or not this is what the statement is saying, or intended to say.
Nobody is questioning whether he would. The problem is, logically it makes no sense and people can't have it both ways. If you take that quote in isolation is one thing, when you combine the other quotes on the matter, it stands on very shaky ground. You can't say somebody wanted to show of their power, and then at the same time, say that same person hide what they did from the very people he was trying to impress. That logical progression is extremely flawed imo
Originally posted by The_Tempest
But he did do it, though.
And people only discover their abilities and shortcomings through testing, trial and error, experimentation, etc.Spoiler:
Kinda like how he could have done that with Maul and Savage rather than fight them blade-to-blade?Sidious employs all manner of methods to demonstrate his superiority. Physical attacks, mind games, etc.
They're not mutually exclusive. 👆
Your ignorance of politics and statecraft is glaring, so I'll give you a crash course: actual governments have labyrinthine and complex political systems that must be navigated every day by a vast multitude of actors. Governments also have to actually govern, as do the actors involved. Meaning Palpatine isn't just scheming and manipulating every second of every day, he actually has to work as Chancellor. Meaning he isn't working in every instance directly towards the Grand Plan.
Actually, Sidious never intended to fight or reveal himself to Yoda on Coruscant. The original goal was for Yoda to die on Kashyyyk, courtesy of Order 66, with the role Palpatine played in all of it unknown.
So... nah. He apparently just likes being able to dupe people sometimes.
I literally just handed you an excerpt that says Palpatine was enjoying Yoda's total ignorance of what was going on. So no, I don't need to entertain your inane line of inquiry.
What, Sidious doesn't have legs with which to pursue them?
Or the power to simply drag them back inside the killbox?
mmm
You might as well concede.
How did Sidious know he was capable of destroying the Imperial Palace then? And that's inaccurate, one can know their own limits by assessing their power in the Force similar to how Force users can generally gauge the power of another.
Yes but the point there was to utterly break Maul by giving him a glimpse of hope and then stomping on it. And what would this demonstration have meant to Vader in this hypothetical situation?
And that's what he has to do to accomplish the Grand Plan. Doesn't mean he enjoys it. And even if it did that in no way supports the idea that he would enjoy carrying out menial pointless tasks that lesser beings would.
What you don't think Palpatine accounted for survivors? I mentioned Yoda specifically because he survived but I imagine Palpatine would feel the same smug superior over all Jedi the the Jedi the same feelings of shame and frustration towards him in regards to him given how thoroughly they'd been duped.
Already addressed this above.
If Sidious had chased there's a chance Maul's soldiers would have noticed and come to their aid. And what would have been the point of fighting him if Maul had thought Sidious could kill him at any time?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nobody is questioning whether he would. The problem is, logically it makes no sense and people can't have it both ways. If you take that quote in isolation is one thing, when you combine the other quotes on the matter, it stands on very shaky ground. You can't say somebody wanted to show of their power, and then at the same time, say that same person hide what they did from the very people he was trying to impress. That logical progression is extremely flawed imo
He's arguing that Sidious would have done it to impress himself.
Protip: you should consider trying to refute my points instead of asking inane, irrelevant questions, most of which I generously answered.
To recap: I've proven Sidious has privately enjoyed his superiority over ignorant dupes. If Vader or an Inquisitor were present, the feat would have been a grandiose display of power.
You've failed to rebut any of this and have instead offered the scintillating alternative that Sidious defeated the Lusankya in a debate.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Protip: you should consider trying to refute my points instead of asking inane, irrelevant questions, most of which I generously answered.To recap: I've proven Sidious has privately enjoyed his superiority over ignorant dupes. If Vader or an Inquisitor were present, the feat would have been a grandiose display of power.
You've failed to rebut any of this and have instead offered the scintillating alternative that Sidious defeated the Lusankya in a debate.
I am refuting your points by questioning the glaring flaws in your argument.
He enjoyed it because he knew there would be a pay off when his opponents realized they'd been outsmarted and outmaneuvered later. There's nothing to suggest either Vader or any other Inquisitors would have been present at the time he would have have accomplished the feat.
I offered the alternative that Sidious buried the secret of the Lusankya rather then actually telekinetically doing so because the likelihood of him learning even basic engineering simplyso he could have displayed his power is far more unlikely then simply having his Engineering Corps do it for him which is stated to have happened in universe.
And since you failed to address it in your last post.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
How did Sidious know he was capable of destroying the Imperial Palace then? And that's inaccurate, one can know their own limits by assessing their power in the Force similar to how Force users can generally gauge the power of another.Yes but the point there was to utterly break Maul by giving him a glimpse of hope and then stomping on it. And what would this demonstration have meant to Vader in this hypothetical situation?
And that's what he has to do to accomplish the Grand Plan. Doesn't mean he enjoys it. And even if it did that in no way supports the idea that he would enjoy carrying out menial pointless tasks that lesser beings could do for him like learning basic engineering and putting support beams into place for hours or even days.
What you don't think Palpatine accounted for survivors? I mentioned Yoda specifically because he survived the Purge but I imagine Palpatine would feel the same smug superiority over all Jedi the the Jedi the same feelings of shame and frustration towards him in regards to him given how thoroughly they'd been duped.
Already addressed this above.
If Sidious had chased there's a chance Maul's soldiers would have noticed and come to their aid. And what would have been the point of fighting him if Maul had thought Sidious could kill him at any time?
If there are flaws in my argument, you've certainly failed to identify them. Your questions aren't anything other than blatant red herrings.
If I tell you I had steak for dinner, you haven't refuted that by asking me why I didn't have chicken instead.
Palpatine mused that he enjoyed Yoda'a ignorance. Palpatine also intended Yoda to die in ignorance on Kashyyyk. No grand payoff.
I've proven that Sidious is a malignant narcissist and private or public displays of power aren't beyond him.
And if the passage said that Sidious buried the secret of the Lusankya, you'd have a point. It didn't; so you don't.
PM me when you've come up with something worth more of my time. 😁
My question ( singular ) was to point out that Sidious was obviously aware of his capabilities since he knew he could take apart the Imperial Palace.
No but if you had previously claimed you knew the answer to 2+2 and then later claimed you didn't I would ask which variables had changed which I did here.
He enjoyed the Jedi's collective ignorance. Many of them dying doesn't mean he can't enjoy the knowledge that the surviving Jedi felt the shame and self blame of failing to see through his ruse.
You haven't actually because none of the examples you provided showed he was satisfied with someone remaining unaware of his grandiose actions.
I do because the word "buried" doesn't need to have a qualifier beforehand to mean something wasn't literally buried.
So I take it you're conceding the point?
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
My question ( singular ) was to point out that Sidious was obviously aware of his capabilities since he knew he could take apart the Imperial Palace.No but if you had previously claimed you knew the answer to 2+2 and then later claimed you didn't I would ask which variables had changed which I did here.
He enjoyed the Jedi's collective ignorance. Many of them dying doesn't mean he can't enjoy the knowledge that the surviving Jedi felt the shame and self blame of failing to see through his ruse.
You haven't actually because none of the examples you provided showed he was satisfied with someone remaining unaware of his grandiose actions.
I do because the word "buried" doesn't need to have a qualifier beforehand to mean something wasn't literally buried.
So I take it you're conceding the point?
Because Palpatine has done stuff in the past to lead him to believe he can crack the Palace's foundation? lol
Not at all. I gave you an open invitation to let me know when you had something to offer.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Because Palpatine has done stuff in the past to lead him to believe he can crack the Palace's foundation? lolNot at all. I gave you an open invitation to let me know when you had something to offer.
Such as? Unless you're saying he tested his abilities off screen and then suddenly stopped doing so around the time of the Lusankya feat your justification here makes absolutely no sense.
Honestly though I'm starting to realize this is about the sum total of what you're capable of nowadays. What I've seen from your debating in the last year and a half constitutes the following.
"Sidious's force storms can consume the universe cause a quote says it can."
"Sidious can bury the Lusankya even if that would either cause him to go against his character or spend hours learning basic engineering cause I want him to."
Or my personal favorite "This quote should be taken literally because I said so."
This little encounter has really lowered my respect for you tbh.
Same goes for you Temp. I truly hope you can bring more to the table in the future then what you did this time because honestly, I'm not impressed.
I'm not saying he stopped testing his skills off screen lol. I'm saying the burial of the Lusankya could have been one of those tests. They're not incompatible.
I suppose I'll just have to find a way to cope with the displeasure of the towering intellect that believes Sidious beat the Lusankya in a debate and Nihilus isn't a Sith Lord because fvck sources lol.
You know how to get in touch with me if you cobble together something of merit.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not saying he stopped testing his skills off screen lol. I'm saying the burial of the Lusankya could have been one of those tests. They're not incompatible.I suppose I'll just have to find a way to cope with the displeasure of the towering intellect that believes Sidious beat the Lusankya in a debate and Nihilus isn't a Sith Lord because fvck sources lol.
You know how to get in touch with me if you cobble together something of merit.
Right. Because he'd really risk the Lusankya, one of the most expensive and powerful warships in the fleet, as a test of his what he's capable of. Lmao.
That really the best you can do? Saying my example of a word not being used literally was a claim? :/ Well, if that's the best you can do...