馃槵
These acolytes overpowering Anakin with the Force are blatant outliers.
If they were truly that powerful, they would have killed him the second time around.
If Ventress could with the ease Saato would, she would have in their fights.
She didn't. In their fights, Ventress generally lost / was dominated.
My point is that Ventress would not have been as powerful as them back in 22 BBY, when they were alive, but she might've surpassed them in power by 19 BBY, per her quote. Anakin obviously also grew in power in that time, and by a larger margin as well, so of course Ventress wouldn't be dominating him.
Originally posted by SunRazerWell whatever, it only makes sense that Padawan Anakin would be inexperienced against dark side attacks, especially considering the Jedi's complacency, but that doesn't mean they can harness his raw power at all. And it's laughable to assume otherwise. 馃檪
I hardly even remember the game. Somebody else made the comparison first and spread it around Comic Vine.
Originally posted by SunRazer
My point is that Ventress would not have been as powerful as them back in 22 BBY, when they were alive, but she might've surpassed them in power by 19 BBY, per her quote. Anakin obviously also grew in power in that time, and by a larger margin as well, so of course Ventress wouldn't be dominating him.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And my point is being stronger than them at any time period isn't relevant, since there's no parity to establish between them and dreadnought-hurling Anakin.
So you think the Choking constitutes only mastery, as opposed to mastered power?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well whatever, it only makes sense that Padawan Anakin would be inexperienced against dark side attacks, especially considering the Jedi's complacency, but that doesn't mean they can harness his raw power at all. And it's laughable to assume otherwise. 馃檪
Malak doesn't have access to Anakin's raw power either, lol.
Last time I checked, Ant thought Anakin genuinely contended with Dooku in AotC. If so, then Ventress being about equal with Anakin four months after AotC and constantly growing stronger is absolutely beyond anything Malak's shown, whether it be losing to Revan or dominating Bastila, who'd be hard-pressed to avoid being one-shotted by characters of Dooku's caliber.
Stalemating somebody four months after contending with Dooku is indeed beyond Malak when Anakin's shown in Legends that he can improve noticeably in just one day. If it's so laughable, why don't you show me anything from Malak to prove he can match that?
That's TCW. We're discussing pure Legends, which, for the sake of this discussion at least, Ant and I are excluding TCW from. Even if we did include it, Dooku destroyed her with the Force, not pure sabers.
Being at least comparable with Traya and Revan is more than enough to allow Malak to press Dooku in combat and either of those two would ragdoll Ventress. Not to mention that his darkside mastery, lightsaber training and combat experience far exceeds that of Ventress.
Even discounting TCW, in OCW Dooku owns the shit out of Ventress right before she goes on to stalemate Anakin. Heck, in OCW Dooku owns Grievous after GG clownslapped Durge and Ventress at the same time. Dooku's also whooped on Kenobi, Ventress' superior, across all medias.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Being at least comparable with Traya and Revan is more than enough to allow Malak to press Dooku in combat and either of those two would ragdoll Ventress. Not to mention that his darkside mastery, lightsaber training and combat experience far exceeds that of Ventress.Even discounting TCW, in OCW Dooku owns the shit out of Ventress right before she goes on to stalemate Anakin.
Being loosely comparable to Darth Revan hardly allows Malak to press Dooku in combat when AotC Dooku's factually above KotOR Revan as a swordsman and KotOR Revan would be coming close to stomping Malak.
Dooku owns Ventress with the Force in OCW. Not in sabers, which is what I'm discussing.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lmao, Kenobi isn't factually above Revan.
Are you quite alright, Neph? I didn't even mention Kenobi in my post. I said AotC Dooku is factually above KotOR Revan as a swordsman, and that Revan likely approaches stomping Malak by the end of KotOR.
And yes, it does.
Based on what? Darth Revan killing Yusanis and Mandalore the Ultimate? Malak being loosely comparable to Darth Revan doesn't at all suggest he could press someone who's contended with Yoda, Anakin + Obi-Wan, defeated Legends Grievous easily, etc.
But I edited my post with more examples.
Ventress grows in strength after her fight with both Dooku and Grievous, for the record. The fact that she's noted to be constantly growing stronger leads me to believe that by 19 BBY, she's indeed capable of contending with AotC-era Dooku.
Dooku hasn't whooped on Obi-Wan in all media. Not in the RotS novel.
Anyway, my argument is predicated on Anakin contending with Dooku, which is what Ant believes, and which I'm personally unsold on. There's quotes saying that Dooku easily defeated Ventress right before she goes on her mission where she duels evenly with post-AotC Anakin. I'm merely following Ant's scaling here - I'm more than willing to abandon this in favor of the Count.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Are you quite alright, Neph? I didn't even mention Kenobi in my post. I said AotC Dooku is factually above KotOR Revan as a swordsman.
You edited. And he isn't. Nor is he factually above him as an overall combatant. Frankly speaking, Kotor Revan Star Forge feats are easily on par with anything Dooku's done, if not superior.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Based on what? Darth Revan killing Yusanis and Mandalore the Ultimate?
Revan can easily be scaled off of Traya, who you've so handily proven to be beyond the Count in terms of power. Revan and Malak are certainly comparable to her, if not her obvious combative superiors.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Ventress grows in strength after her fight with both Dooku and Grievous, for the record.Dooku hasn't whooped on Obi-Wan in all media. Not in the RotS novel.
Anyway, my argument is predicated on Anakin contending with Dooku, which is what Ant believes, and which I'm personally unsold on. There's quotes saying that Dooku easily defeated Ventress right before she goes on her mission where she duels evenly with post-AotC Anakin. I'm merely following Ant's scaling here - I'm more than willing to abandon this in favor of the Count.
My point was that she was still far beneath Dooku even after her fight with Anakin, who supposedly challenged him.
The RotS novel is cancer. Dooku's beat his ass plenty of times, Kenobi clearly can't compete, at least the versions that fought Ventress in. Which was quite some time before RotS in Legends, I believe.
I see your point, and agree with you in that. Its stated in the AotC novel that Dooku wasn't going all out against Anakin anyway. And I'm pretty sure Ant based that around the TCW move that you then agreed not to consider anyway, so....
Originally posted by Nephthys
You edited.
I didn't. My post doesn't say I edited. I always said that it was AotC Dooku, not Obi-Wan, who was factually better than Revan.
And he isn't. Nor is he factually above him as an overall combatant. Frankly speaking, Kotor Revan Star Forge feats are easily on par with anything Dooku's done, if not superior.
Jedi Dooku's factually only been surpassed by Mace Windu and Yoda as swordsmen in the history of the Jedi Order up to Attack of the Clones, and this is from a Legends source in 2009, well after KotOR. So yes, it includes Revan, and there's no excuse against that.
Dooku's canonically improved his skills with a blade upon joining the Sith, which factually puts him above KotOR Revan since we know KotOR Revan was at best equal to Jedi Dooku as a swordsman, and quite possibly inferior.
Revan can easily be scaled off of Traya, who you've so handily proven to be beyond the Count in terms of power. Revan and Malak are certainly comparable to her, if not her obvious combative superiors.
Revan and Malak only get scaling from Arren Kae, not Traya.
I'm placing Traya and Dooku on roughly even footing now in terms of power, actually. Besides, this is sabers.
My point was that she was still far beneath Dooku even after her fight with Anakin, who supposedly challenged him.
Your examples were all 22 BBY Ventress. She grows in strength continuously, which means it's entirely feasible.
The RotS novel is cancer. Dooku's beat his ass plenty of times, Kenobi clearly can't compete, at least the versions that fought Ventress in. Which was quite some time before RotS in Legends, I believe.
You can't dismiss a source just because you hate it, lol. My point was that Dooku hasn't beaten Obi-Wan easily in all media, which is something that you claimed and which is wrong.
I see your point, and agree with you in that. Its stated in the AotC novel that Dooku wasn't going all out against Anakin anyway. And I'm pretty sure Ant based that around the TCW move that you then agreed not to consider anyway, so....
Which is why that part of my post was designed for Ant, not you.
Also, it's the junior novel, not the adult novel, that has Dooku toying with Anakin, IIRC.