Darth Plagueis/Palpatine's Meditation War Never Created Anakin Skywalker

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
This was an argument addressed on another topic, but it was relevant enough for a topic solely devoted to the discussion.

In short, nothing states that Anakin Skywalker was actually born from the meditation ritual besides the silent musings of Palpatine and Darth Plagueis.

Thus, it's not confirmed fact. However, what is confirmed fact is everything read below.

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Anakin Skywalker was born in 41.9 BBY.

Assuming 3:4:14 ArS is 32.0 BBY, then Anakin Skywalker is 9 years, 10 months, and 24 days old of The Phantom Menace.

Note that the above isn't critical to this discussion, but it's worth noting.

The Yinchorri Uprising took place in 33.0 BBY.

In the Darth Plagueis novel, it states that the duo's meditation took place 8 years prior to the event.

Thus, the meditation occurred roughly around 41 BBY.

Even if we assume the mental war took place the earliest it possibly could (i.e. a day short of 42 BBY), the math doesn't add up.

After all, Anakin Skywalker would have been *conceived* well into 42 BBY (likely around 42.7 BBY).

Also, if we make note of the ArS timeline established above, then Anakin Skywalker would have been conceived a full year before it happened.

Thus, we have Anakin Skywalker being conceived numerous months after the latest possible time the meditation could have occurred.

In other words, Darth Plagueis and Palpatine's war never gave birth to Anakin Skywalker. Something else did. 👆

We can ask Luceno, and we know what he'll say - though Ant's regard of authorial intent seems to be highly selective.

In either case, why should we assume that the pregnancy lasted nine months? The Force would clearly not be bound by such a limitation.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
We can ask Luceno, and we know what he'll say - though Ant's regard of authorial intent seems to be highly selective.

In either case, why should we assume that the pregnancy lasted nine months? The Force would clearly not be bound by such a limitation.

I think the burden of proof would belong to the side attempting to suggest that the force expedited the pregnancy. If the timing were so crucial to the force, why stop there? Why not continue to expedite his growth after he was born as well? Perhaps make him a full functioning adult ready to bring balance to the force by the time TPM begins? The Force would clearly not be bound by such limitations. Unless we have evidence to indicate that Anakin's body was developing at an expedited rate, I see no reason to entertain such discussion. As it stands, Anakin body developed at a normal rate and he didn't bring balance to the force until multiple decades after his birth. Our good friend occam's razor tells us timing was not an issue for the force to meddle with.

Is there some kind of point trying to be made here, with discussing Anakin's birth timing? Cause I'm not really seeing the point.

Yes. Ant tries to prove, that Anakin wasn't created as result of the Balanceshift caused by Plagueis and Sidious.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
In either case, why should we assume that the pregnancy lasted nine months? The Force would clearly not be bound by such a limitation.

Ant. You realize how arbitrary this is?

I think Shmi would have mentioned if she gave birth in a few weeks, lol. Or that would be brought up somewhere. Seems like the kind of thing that would be notable.

She didn't say that's a Anakin was a virgin birth until Qui Gon asked.

It's philosophy created a cyclical evolution through turning conflict into a process for improvement, which lead to Plagueis and Sidious, who unbalanced the Force in favor of the Dark Side, which is around when the Father really lost control over the Son and started dying.

In other words, the Son could only beat the Father with Palpatine's help. Nice theory. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
She didn't say that's a Anakin was a virgin birth until Qui Gon asked.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's not necessary for the math.

Originally posted by ILS
Either way, the point of Plagueis' superiority being ironclad has just been verified by this colossal switching of goalposts.

There's absolutely no evidence that Darth Plagueis had anything to do with the creation of the Chosen One.

To assume such is complete and utter speculation.

And don't think I'm not going to respond to your blasphemy concerning Revan either, ILS.

You're assuming that Plagueis and Sidious didn't accomplish what they are blatantly shown to because of a simple dating error.

How can you act like other people are being unreasonable when you actively search out inconsistencies to serve your own bias?

No, that's another thing. Only Palpatine and Darth Plaguies muse the possibility that the war created Anakin, and even then they weren't sure.

Why would he have included Plagueis and Sidious unbalancing the Force around the exact timeline Anakin was born only to leave it ambiguous?

Both Anakin's birth and the when the meditation occurred is left ambiguous with Anakin's birth date being "approximate" and Plagueis and Sidious's meditation never being specified apart from "roughly 8 years" before an event in 33 BBY.

It makes absolutely no sense to apply a quote that says any non combat related event in the mythos occurred in the first half of the year if the specific date is left ambiguous. We have innumerable dates that are left ambiguous and it's illogical that they all applied in that first half simply because a source made that claim. You can't pretend authors have ultra awareness in regards to all SW sources. What even implies that the quote is supposed to be applied to dates outside ones that appear in the source itself?

Even if the quote were to apply how do you know 41.9 isn't simply the date being counted up rather then down. I.E. a little longer and it would have become 40 BBY rather then a little sooner and it would have been 42 BBY. It makes far more sense to have been the former and the date having been given a specific decimal unlike any of the other dates to confirm that yes it was Plagueis and Sidious's meditation which caused it. What other out of universe reason would there have been for giving him a specific decimal point like that different from all the other characters?

I assume you never actually read the book, but if you would have, you would realize that the alleged unbalancing was not a major part of the book. It was only described once when Darth Plaguies glossed over it in his musings. The fundamental part of the book, the midichlorian manipulation, is featured far more and in-depth.

You already stated this, but it's clear you don't know what it means. Anakin Skywalker's birth has been provided by two seperate sources, in which one of them give the exact year, month, and day of birth. The other provides merely a year and the approximate month, hence Chee's comment it was an approximation. That being established, we know when the meditation occurred too, in which it was after 41.5 BBY.

It's frankly annoying you continue to post in this thread. I don't even think you know what BBY and ABY is, and I really doubt you know anything about the timeline. I'm getting tired of your insults and your questions that I have already answered. I recommend conceding the issue and letting other members press the point.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

Even if the quote were to apply how do you know 41.9 isn't simply the date being counted up rather then down. I.E. a little longer and it would have become 40 BBY rather then a little sooner it being 42 BBY. It makes far more sense to have been the former and the date having been given a specific decimal unlike any of the other dates to confirm that yes it was Plagueis and Sidious's meditation which caused it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I assume you never actually read the book, but if you would have, you would realize that the alleged unbalancing was not a major part of the book. It was only described once when Darth Plaguies glossed over it in his musings. The fundamental part of the book, the midichlorian manipulation, is featured far more and in-depth.

You already stated this, but it's clear you don't know what it means. Anakin Skywalker's birth has been provided by two seperate sources, in which one of them give the exact year, month, and day of birth. The other provides merely a year and the approximate month, hence Chee's comment it was an approximation. That being established, we know when the meditation occurred too, in which it was prior to 41.5 BBY.

It's frankly annoying you continue to post in this thread. I don't even think you know what BBY and ABY is, and I really doubt you know anything about the timeline. I'm getting tired of your insults and your questions that I have already answered. I recommend conceding the issue and letting other members press the point.

I have read the book and its companion piece "The Tenebrous Way" which notes that it's Plagueis's actions which will bring about the anomaly known as the Chosen One. The entire point of Tenebrous taking on Plagueis as an apprentice and feeding his insecurities in regards to immortality so that he would focus his efforts in this area was so that the anomaly could be born and so that he could inhabit its body and become the most powerful force user who ever lived.

No we don't. Unless you can prove that the quote you're using to justify the meditation taking place around that time applies to all dates outside of the source itself you have no leg to stand on.

I'm honestly angry at you because you don't give a shit about actually understanding the lore or intent of its authors. All you care about is wanking a single character beyond reasonable levels to suit your own personal bias and gain personal prestige within the community. You're honestly a bit of a scumbag and it sickens me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I assume you never actually read the book, but if you would have, you would realize that the alleged unbalancing was not a major part of the book. It was only described once when Darth Plaguies glossed over it in his musings. The fundamental part of the book, the midichlorian manipulation, is featured far more and in-depth.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm honestly angry at you because you don't give a shit about actually understanding the lore or intent of its authors. All you care about is wanking a single character beyond reasonable levels to suit your own personal bias and and gain personal prestige within the community. You're honestly a bit of a scumbag and it sickens me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
To clarify to the reader, I didn't see this in my post. This, however, confirms that he has no clue how BBY and ABY works. BBY goes down to zero. ABY goes up from zero. The fact I have to specify makes me inclined to believe you should just stop.

The fact that this thread exists makes me inclined to believe you should stop being apart of this community entirely since you obviously don't care about anything other then twisting information to suit your agenda.