Anakin Skywalker's Physical Strength (Comparison)

lel. I'm actually busy. I'll respond as soon as I can commit to a longer post. Then I have a few posts to respond to on CV.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
What? No. Ventress and Opress never combined their attacks, Force-based or otherwise. You can't make that kind of comparison.

No, not really.

He still got kicked, tripped etc. point is Dooku is just much more agile.

Not really, for all we know he could have done that in S3 as well.

I don't need to prove a claim you made lol. And the fact he grew tremendously powerful over the course of the Clone Wars does not mean he did so between a single season.

And RotS Yoda has better feats that AotC Yoda, this means nothing.

Considering that in all their years they've never been known too either 1. they are not practiced 2. they do not prefer to.

No its merely a question of degrees, one does not have to be either going all out or massively holding back.

Now your just throwing out claims. Why exactly does the intent to injure or kill demand one hold make "massively" as you continue to assert? When Jedi are surely taught how to disable an opponent non lethally?

Heck why be abstract when we can be specific, why exactly, if he possessed the ability to do so, would Anakin not try to floor, stagger or otherwise pin Ventress here?

Or refrain from applying the necessary strength to keep Ventress from escaping here?

Other than to unnecessarily prolong the fight? No reason I can fathom.

It's pretty strange you think the Dooku vs Savage+Ventress fight was no different to him fighting them both one on one. Firstly there were instances when he was fighting Ventress in Sabers while simultaneously Lightning Savage. But even ignoring that, obviously Dooku will have to spend way more energy fighting them both one after the other without given a proper oportunity to finish one of them off before the other comes at him.

Also Dooku didn't land any significant hit on S6 Anakin. He never once kicked or TK'd him to the floor the way he does to Ventress and Obi-Wan. And Never once injured him at all.

And leave out the "AOTC Yoda couldn't do what ROTS Yoda could" nonsense, because no one's claiming Yoda massively improved from AOTC to ROTS.

So Anyway Look Dude, S4 Anakin was a near equal to Dooku. And that's not just in Sabers. Dooku kept TK'ing him, but Anakin just kept getting back up and booted Dooku to the floor almost throttling him. Whilst against Ventress Dooku kept booting her to the floor, kept driving her back, and easily pinned and disarmed her via TK.

So you can have it 1 of 2 ways. Either Anakin massively improved from S3 to S4, or Anakin was massively holding back on Ventress (and Savage) in S3. It's one or the other. Or perhaps a bit of both. Take your pic. But choose, because nothing else makes any logical sense. In fact you've not even attempted to reconcile out of those 2 seemingly contradictory fights. (Only seemingly contradictory if you think Anakin didn't improve, or wasn't holding back).

The hypocrisy of thor lol

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's pretty strange you think the Dooku vs Savage+Ventress fight was no different to him fighting them both one on one.

Firstly there were instances when he was fighting Ventress in Sabers while simultaneously Lightning Savage. But even ignoring that, obviously Dooku will have to spend way more energy fighting them both one after the other without given a proper oportunity to finish one of them off before the other comes at him.

Also Dooku didn't land any significant hit on S6 Anakin. He never once kicked or TK'd him to the floor the way he does to Ventress and Obi-Wan. And Never once injured him at all.

And leave out the "AOTC Yoda couldn't do what ROTS Yoda could" nonsense, because no one's claiming Yoda massively improved from AOTC to ROTS.

So Anyway Look Dude,

S4 Anakin was a near equal to Dooku.

And that's not just in Sabers. Dooku kept TK'ing him, but Anakin just kept getting back up and booted Dooku to the floor almost throttling him.

Whilst against Ventress Dooku kept booting her to the floor

kept driving her back

and easily pinned and disarmed her via TK.

So you can have it 1 of 2 ways. Either Anakin massively improved from S3 to S4, or Anakin was massively holding back on Ventress (and Savage) in S3. It's one or the other. Or perhaps a bit of both. Take your pic. But choose, because nothing else makes any logical sense.

Or in short: your ABC logic is flawed. 👆

In fact you've not even attempted to reconcile out of those 2 seemingly contradictory fights. (Only seemingly contradictory if you think Anakin didn't improve, or wasn't holding back).

Well done beni #thorexposed

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I never argued that Dooku couldn't disengage. But in general its suggested that Yoda wasn't trying to overpower but stonewall him.

Do you take information from the junior novel to be information that exclusively applies to the junior novel's rendition of the fight, or all variants of the fight?

What are you suggesting, that Sidious was holding back? I find that unlikely, but it's a moot point anyway given the second gif; and no, Yoda overpowers Sidious every time.

No, my point is that equals in strength can randomly overpower each other to a negligible extent at different times. Such as Yoda vs Sidious, where all the "overpowering" is completely negligible.

Yoda didn't win the bladelocks every time either:

Very well thanks, in regards to which your case for Skywalker is debunked, leaving us with Yoda going toe-to-toe with Sidious and Anakin failing to overpower Ventress. Go figure.

My case isn't debunked in the slightest. Yoda turned aside Dooku's blade, yet it was a practically negligible overpowering seeing that Tyranus managed a countersweep instantly. Whereas in Shadow Warrior, Anakin first breaks Dooku's saberlock with enough force to literally push Dooku's torso and head to the side and downwards, as well as his blade downwards, and in the second bladelock, Anakin is continually pushing the Count's saber towards him. Yoda's feat isn't a match for either of them, nor is his bladelock at the end.

I'd say its implied that Dooku was quickly overpowered by Yoda in a stunning display. Regardless, he was disarmed either way.

Again, "quickly" isn't suggested anywhere. There's no metric at all. Obviously it's quick by our terms, since they move so fast to begin with, but by their terms? Nah. The entirety of Sidious vs Yoda's lightsaber duel in the Podium was summed up in one line in the RotS script.

Seems like PIS more than anything but I suppose the possibility is there.

Not in the way you'd think, or rather like, as its becoming increasingly clear to me that "rage amp" is merely a term you employ to explain away situations that are disagreeable to you. mmm

The fact that you're willing to dismiss anything that operates against your case instantly by claiming its PIS, but then go on to say that I call "rage amp" just to dismiss opposing cases is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

At least I'm trying to generate in-universe explanations for scenarios. And my explanations fit.

Aside from Maul being much stronger than Ventress, Sidious was holding back.

Of course Maul's stronger, but not by so much that it renders my point irrelevant.

Sidious holding back in the saberlock? His facial expressions denoted clear strain and there's a very obvious difference to his facial expressions throughout the fight. Not to mention Filoni claiming that Sidious went all-in at the end.

Anakin was no less equal with him than he was here in AotC

Well, seeing as you're willing to take junior novel information and apply it to other renditions of the fight, you'll surely accept the junior novel's suggestion that Dooku toyed with Anakin after repelling his initial two-bladed salvo.

and no rage-amp is implied (unless you'd argue that Anakin always has an amp when fighting Dooku, and in that way debunk your entire case);

No rage amp is implied? Anakin goes from equality to two-shotting Dooku, and he's just been shown a hologram of his padawan facing what he perceived to be near-certain death.

I recall a source directly stating this, but I don't have it on-hand right now. I'll let you know if or when I find it.

Maul never challenged Sidious in a blade lock, Sheev merely met his attack them swiftly overpowered him

Swiftly?

That's a decent enough period of time for me to not call it "swift", and as I said, Sheev's facial expressions and the difference in them compared to the rest of the fight indicates that there was strain and that Sidious had to call upon his full power to overcome Maul.

and Dooku's abilities far surpass Savage's, but evidently not his strength, given that the latter was not operating under an abnormal emotional state in that situation.

I'm referring to Force abilities, lol. Which is why Savage being able to throw him across the room makes it evident that he was enraged. And given that right before, he was screaming and Choking Ventress and Dooku, I don't think a case to the contrary is even possible (I believe a source(s) confirm that he was enraged, also).

Sidious is not a Yoda+ tier opponent tbh.

I interpreted that as meaning Yoda-level or higher, not above Yoda.

And naturally I didn't believe I needed to since the example you're trying to raise is fabricated nonsense. 🙂

Well, I don't mind going down to a claim that S4 Anakin approaches Yoda in strength at least, but he's stronger than Yoda by RotS, so there can't be much of a disparity.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Do you take information from the junior novel to be information that exclusively applies to the junior novel's rendition of the fight, or all variants of the fight?

No, my point is that equals in strength can randomly overpower each other to a negligible extent at different times. Such as Yoda vs Sidious, where all the "overpowering" is completely negligible.

Yoda didn't win the bladelocks every time either:

My case isn't debunked in the slightest. Yoda turned aside Dooku's blade, yet it was a practically negligible overpowering seeing that Tyranus managed a countersweep instantly. Whereas in Shadow Warrior, Anakin first breaks Dooku's saberlock with enough force to literally push Dooku's torso and head to the side and downwards, as well as his blade downwards, and in the second bladelock, Anakin is continually pushing the Count's saber towards him. Yoda's feat isn't a match for either of them, nor is his bladelock at the end.

But still he repelled Dooku's strength rather capably, and more to the point, should have been able to break that last bladelock had he wanted to.

Again, "quickly" isn't suggested anywhere. There's no metric at all. Obviously it's quick by our terms, since they move so fast to begin with, but by their terms? Nah. The entirety of Sidious vs Yoda's lightsaber duel in the Podium was summed up in one line in the RotS script.p

The fact that you're willing to dismiss anything that operates against your case instantly by claiming its PIS, but then go on to say that I call "rage amp" just to dismiss opposing cases is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

At least I'm trying to generate in-universe explanations for scenarios. And my explanations fit.

I say one thing appeared like PIS and all of a sudden I'm dismissing everything? Lmao. I'm just throwing it out their darling, given its one of your favourite words I thought it might resonate with you. 😉

Of course Maul's stronger, but not by so much that it renders my point irrelevant.

Sidious holding back in the saberlock? His facial expressions denoted clear strain and there's a very obvious difference to his facial expressions throughout the fight. Not to mention Filoni claiming that Sidious went all-in at the end.

Swiftly?

That's a decent enough period of time for me to not call it "swift", and as I said, Sheev's facial expressions and the difference in them compared to the rest of the fight indicates that there was strain and that Sidious had to call upon his full power to overcome Maul.

Anakin can't even keep her pinned.

Realistically we should have at least been looking at something like this:

If not this:

Or to put it simply he should have been more than capable of dominating her. But Ventress doesn't seem to be struggling with Anakin's strength much at all. Even if we were to assume various extenuating circumstances it still does not add up.

Well, seeing as you're willing to take junior novel information and apply it to other renditions of the fight, you'll surely accept the junior novel's suggestion that Dooku toyed with Anakin after repelling his initial two-bladed salvo.

No rage amp is implied? Anakin goes from equality to two-shotting Dooku, and he's just been shown a hologram of his padawan facing what he perceived to be near-certain death.

I recall a source directly stating this, but I don't have it on-hand right now. I'll let you know if or when I find it.

Anakin being an exceptional circumstance when it comes to rage-amps in general.

I'm referring to Force abilities, lol. Which is why Savage being able to throw him across the room makes it evident that he was enraged. And given that right before, he was screaming and Choking Ventress and Dooku, I don't think a case to the contrary is even possible (I believe a source(s) confirm that he was enraged, also).

On the other hand going from realistically facing (total) domination from your opponent to handling oneself rather well despite having a formidable opponent for backup is even a bigger amp than Savage experienced, given he was at least a threat to Dooku before hand, and more powerful than Ventress as well. Yet I'd hardly describe her behaviour as that of one in a maddened bloodlust, would you? Again even within the contexts of TCW's admittedly liberal application of the "rage amp" it doesn't add up.

There's only a few points to address, really:

1. I didn't say Sidious won (although he did move Yoda's saber more?), just that Yoda didn't win every time.

2. The website says that Dooku is impressed by how much Anakin has grown since Geonosis, although that's admittedly vague. Also, if I recall, the adult AotC novel has Dooku musing that it was a challenge to beat Anakin, but I could be wrong there.

3. Yoda's height doesn't matter, lol. If the strength disparity is that big, he could still do something similar. Heck, he knocks Palpatine's lightsaber up a fair way (up to his head) in that example you cited in RotS.

4. Where is Maul shown to have greater strength than Savage? He beats Savage in the brawl through technique rather than raw strength, IIRC.

5. If you're going to cite Anakin's emotional state and degree of performance as exceptional and subject to change, then it's only fair to also say that his showing against Ventress could've been one of his lower showings. He's hardly consistent, especially in TCW.

6. If Ventress were sufficiently enraged (which she has every reason to be considering she was just betrayed by Dooku and desperate to avoid capture by the Jedi), I don't see why she couldn't hold off Anakin's blows since she practically stomps Obi-Wan at the beginning which suggests a massive amp.

By the end she's clearly outmatched by either Jedi. It's pretty clear that she was enhanced at the beginning, and by a lot considering that she's supposed to be injured. It makes no sense that she performed that well unless she was amped in an instance similar to Maul vs Sidious in the caves of Hypori (extreme bloodlust at first, which gradually gives way to fatigue).

And yes, I would describe it as "maddened bloodlust". She's just been betrayed by Dooku and is fighting for her life. I drew a comparison to Maul vs Sidious on Hypori above - it's a pretty similar situation.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't, and never claimed as much.

Which doesn't change the fact that they never combined their powers against Dooku.

You mean they didn't combine their Force powers? Completely irrelevant to anything tbh. Neither of them could handle Dooku's force powers (even with a second combatant to attack him), whereas Anakin could.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
This comparison with Ventress and Kenobi is a red herring, the point is that Dooku is more agile (and finessed) than Anakin, the fact that he remains better than the aforementioned is irrelevant. Regardless your wrong, Dooku floors Anakin right here:

Exactly what point are you making here? You seem to be going off on a tangent on Dooku's agility for no reason whatsoever, thinking that's winning you this argument, when it's not even relevant.
Of course Dooku and Anakin have different strengths/weaknesses. Still doesn't change the fact that Anakin (with superior strength) drives back the guy who regularly kicks and boots Ventress back with superior strength.

And yet you're clinging to a couple of pretty silly gif's that hardly last a second or so each, trying to claim Anakin's not >>> Ventress in strength, when that's clearly not true.

And FYI, Dooku did nothing significant to Anakin there, as he clearly rolled with the attack, and we see him right back up. Again you're clinging to silly 1 second gif's which are pretty misleading, as the very next second shows a very different picture.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
But if they were to, the claim would be about as proven as your own.

Right so I should believe AOTC Anakin = ROTS Anakin too right? What about TPM Anakin? Do I need to prove he can't do the kind of TK feats that AOTC Anakin can?

Use some logic.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Correct.

So you agree with that? That just makes you're argument even more nonsensical.

Whatever you're trying to prove, it's not working.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He's got exceptional endurance, strength and stamina yes.

Because Dooku is both STRONGER, more agile and finessed than Ventress

Bingo! You've just supported my entire argument. Well done 👆

Originally posted by Beniboybling
hint: Dooku is more agile and finessed than Anakin).

Which again is irrelevant to the "whose physically stronger" and "whose overall more powerful" arguments.

Anakin is a fair bit stronger than Dooku whose in turn a fair bit stronger than Ventress. IOW Anakin >>> Ventress in strength. So again you're S3 fight 1 seconds gif's are pointless.

In all out power Dooku >/= Anakin >/= Savage/Ventress combined.

So again, what were you trying to prove with your gif of Ventress and Anakin being in a blade lock for 1 second? A blade lock which made Ventress give ground no less??

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Through his potent offensive Force powers (hint: Dooku's Force powers are far greater than Anakin's)

You mean those same great Force powers which pinned and defeated Ventress, but couldn't pin or defeat Anakin?

Great hint. That was really useful in proving how much you're not paying attention.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Or we can sensibly conclude that Dooku had a bigger advantage over Ventress (and Savage) because he possessed advantages Anakin did not and still did not by S4, S5 or even S6 i.e. greater offensive Force powers, greater agility, greater finesse. And that's without even addressing the fact he'd be expert in Ventress' fighting style as well.

Or in short: your ABC logic is flawed. 👆

Yeah great theory to throw out there. Except Dooku's not the only one we've seen fight of Savage. We've seen Kenobi fight off Savage with a much stronger opponent than Ventress at Savage's side, and we still see him literally cutting Savage to pieces. You've agreed S4 Anakin is a near equal to the guy whose above both Savage and Ventress combined.

So yeah Savage and Ventress would have to do really well to fight S4 Anakin to a stalemate. Chances are he'd win though looking at all the evidence.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol, clearly haven't been paying attention at all.

Or maybe you're just not making a very astute point.

Originally posted by Kurk
Well done beni #thorexposed

I know you don't like Anakin (and in turn me for constantly reminding you how powerful he is). But he is > Dooku, Kenobi, Ahsoka, Maul... Pretty much everyone whose not named Sidious, Yoda or Mace. Get over it dude.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I know you don't like Anakin (and in turn me for constantly reminding you how powerful he is). But he is > Dooku, Kenobi, Ahsoka, Maul... Pretty much everyone whose not named Sidious, Yoda or Mace. Get over it dude.

^ He might be in Canon too. I just brought his name up because he's possibly on par with Ani, and potentially above him.

Whereas the rest are flat out below Ani.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. I didn't say Sidious won (although he did move Yoda's saber more?), just that Yoda didn't win every time.

2. The website says that Dooku is impressed by how much Anakin has grown since Geonosis, although that's admittedly vague. Also, if I recall, the adult AotC novel has Dooku musing that it was a challenge to beat Anakin, but I could be wrong there.

3. Yoda's height doesn't matter, lol. If the strength disparity is that big, he could still do something similar. Heck, he knocks Palpatine's lightsaber up a fair way (up to his head) in that example you cited in RotS.

Not seeing in either of my examples where Yoda achieves something like that.

4. Where is Maul shown to have greater strength than Savage? He beats Savage in the brawl through technique rather than raw strength, IIRC.

5. If you're going to cite Anakin's emotional state and degree of performance as exceptional and subject to change, then it's only fair to also say that his showing against Ventress could've been one of his lower showings. He's hardly consistent, especially in TCW.

But yeah, he's pretty inconsistent with being a Yoda-tier force user, weird. Which reminds me of that episode with Barriss in Season 5. mmm

6. If Ventress were sufficiently enraged (which she has every reason to be considering she was just betrayed by Dooku and desperate to avoid capture by the Jedi), I don't see why she couldn't hold off Anakin's blows since she practically stomps Obi-Wan at the beginning which suggests a massive amp.

By the end she's clearly outmatched by either Jedi. It's pretty clear that she was enhanced at the beginning, and by a lot considering that she's supposed to be injured. It makes no sense that she performed that well unless she was amped in an instance similar to Maul vs Sidious in the caves of Hypori (extreme bloodlust at first, which gradually gives way to fatigue)/

And yes, I would describe it as "maddened bloodlust". She's just been betrayed by Dooku and is fighting for her life. I drew a comparison to Maul vs Sidious on Hypori above - it's a pretty similar situation.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You mean they didn't combine their Force powers? Completely irrelevant to anything tbh. Neither of them could handle Dooku's force powers (even with a second combatant to attack him), whereas Anakin could.

This is not true, because they never combined their powers.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Exactly what point are you making here?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
[...] that Dooku had a bigger advantage over Ventress (and Savage) because he possessed advantages Anakin did not and still did not by S4, S5 or even S6 i.e. greater offensive Force powers, greater agility, greater finesse. And that's without even addressing the fact he'd be expert in Ventress' fighting style as well.

Or in short: your ABC logic is flawed. 👆

Right so I should believe AOTC Anakin = ROTS Anakin too right? What about TPM Anakin? Do I need to prove he can't do the kind of TK feats that AOTC Anakin can?

Use some logic.

Except Dooku's not the only one we've seen fight of Savage. We've seen Kenobi fight off Savage with a much stronger opponent than Ventress at Savage's side, and we still see him literally cutting Savage to pieces.

You've agreed S4 Anakin is a near equal to the guy whose above both Savage and Ventress combined.

So yeah Savage and Ventress would have to do really well to fight S4 Anakin to a stalemate. Chances are he'd win though looking at all the evidence.

Or maybe I'm just not very astute.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK. Doesn't change my point.

Well, your point being that Yoda can overpower Sidious without necessarily being stronger than him also applies to Dooku.

All that only makes Anakin's performance less extenuating.

Regardless of how justified you think Anakin's performance is, the fact is that he performs infinitely better after the hologram comes out.

Of course it does, he lacks the leverage to do things like force Dooku's blade down and when throwing it in any direction he's disadvantaged by height and reach.

If he had enough strength, he could still push Dooku's blade wide off the mark or push it upwards like he did against Sidious. Instead it was something negligible where Dooku managed to counterswing instantly. "Leverage" isn't excusable here, lol. He managed fine against Sidious in similar positions. The novel depicting Dooku's ability to repel Yoda's Force-enhanced strikes only weakens your case.

He bats away his strikes easily and his victory was as much a product of speed (Force aug) as finesse, more importantly though his physical performance against Darth Sidious was far more impressive than Savage's in every respect.

I take that as an enraged Maul, though.

Erm no, my argument wasn't that Anakin is emotionally unhinged but rather that he possesses tremendous power, and his anger is a catalyst to accessing that power.

Fair enough.

But yeah, he's pretty inconsistent with being a Yoda-tier force user, weird. Which reminds me of that episode with Barriss in Season 5. mmm

TCW doesn't exactly give Anakin his full due, not that Anakin was ever consistent to begin with.

Practically stomps Obi-Wan? Naw. I mean sure she got him good with a kick, but looking at it again she probably got him in the solar plexus (she hits him in the chest) can function very much like a hit to the jaw in that regard, it's a knockout blow.

Well, if she strikes him in almost any part of the body you could justifiably say that she hit a weak spot. But that aside, the fact that she landed such a knockout blow so early on in the fight is not typical of her performances against Obi-Wan at all.

Fair points but its the degree of the bloodlust I contest here, its neither evident nor necessary. Drawing a comparison between Maul on Hypori does nothing to help your case, it's just another example of a lesser amp (Sidious was only pressed because he was holding back) despite being more rage filled and more powerful.

I didn't say the Jedi were like Sidious and held back (I was just comparing the extent of Ventress' amplification to Maul's), but I don't mind that explanation. It explains why Anakin didn't overpower her as easily as you wanted.

And yet there is nothing maddened about her persona at all until she's entirely backed into a corner. In fact she repeatedly acts tactically and evasively, that is not the behaviour of someone in a blind rage.

She starts the fight with a frenzied scream and attacks both at once. She also overpowers Obi-Wan in a bladelock at a point as well, and there are other numerous occasions in which she's just attacking relentlessly. She does retreat at times but pretty much just goes back to screaming and attacking them again afterwards. In any case, she's evidently enhanced, and you already agreed to that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, your point being that Yoda can overpower Sidious without necessarily being stronger than him also applies to Dooku.

Regardless of how justified you think Anakin's performance is, the fact is that he performs infinitely better after the hologram comes out.

If he had enough strength, he could still push Dooku's blade wide off the mark or push it upwards like he did against Sidious. Instead it was something negligible where Dooku managed to counterswing instantly. "Leverage" isn't excusable here, lol. He managed fine against Sidious in similar positions. The novel depicting Dooku's ability to repel Yoda's Force-enhanced strikes only weakens your case.

On in other words to replicate this feat he'd have to hit Dooku's blade with sufficient force to have to carried away practically with sheer momentum alone (something very difficult to generate without swing) whereas Anakin need only extend.

A comparison cannot be drawn.

I take that as an enraged Maul, though.

TCW doesn't exactly give Anakin his full due, not that Anakin was ever consistent to begin with.

Well, if she strikes him in almost any part of the body you could justifiably say that she hit a weak spot. But that aside, the fact that she landed such a knockout blow so early on in the fight is not typical of her performances against Obi-Wan at all.

Anyways its not typical for Ventress no, but its not that far out of reach, seeing as its possible to KO someone who is stronger than you, and Kenobi doesn't exactly eclipse her power at this point.

I didn't say the Jedi were like Sidious and held back (I was just comparing the extent of Ventress' amplification to Maul's), but I don't mind that explanation. It explains why Anakin didn't overpower her as easily as you wanted.

She starts the fight with a frenzied scream and attacks both at once. She also overpowers Obi-Wan in a bladelock at a point as well, and there are other numerous occasions in which she's just attacking relentlessly. She does retreat at times but pretty much just goes back to screaming and attacking them again afterwards. In any case, she's evidently enhanced, and you already agreed to that.

Enhanced she may have been, but not enough to contend with a Yoda-level opponent.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No it doesn't, Dooku doesn't compare to Sidious in the slightest.

That's according to your pre-conceived notions. This doesn't reflect my views, of course, but the point is that if we came into this discussion equipped with just the showings we discussed, it isn't as illogical as you make it out to be. For one, I cited Dooku already stalemating Yoda in a prolonged bladelock - we're trying to verify its legitimacy as a showing. Considering that there's also Dooku repelling Yoda's Force-enhanced blows, which matched those of Sidious', the case isn't exactly as silly as you make it out to be. The biggest detractors to the case would be Anakin tearing Dooku apart in the novel, but Stover's Anakin is stronger than Yoda. There's also Savage disarming Dooku, but that was due to PIS-poor positioning, rather than anything else. So we're only left with Anakin overpowering Dooku in saberlocks in S4, which you'd have to accept as a showing that puts Anakin in Yoda's league in terms of strength.

Anyways, it doesn't matter whether or not Dooku compares to Sidious. Without bringing in pre-conceived notions, your point was that Yoda could overpower Sidious without actually being stronger than him. If so, then your logic applies to all characters, including Dooku.

Like I said before its not relevant.

It is. Whether or not Dooku held back doesn't matter. Anakin's sharp increase in performance carries the connotation of a rage amp, especially when the conditions for such an amp are all in place.

No this is just conjecture. Yoda can only push Dooku's blade as far as his arms can extend, which is to say far far less than Anakin's, he is at an inherent and significant disadvantage.

On in other words to replicate this feat he'd have to hit Dooku's blade with sufficient force to have to carried away practically with sheer momentum alone (something very difficult to generate without swing) whereas Anakin need only extend.

A comparison cannot be drawn.

He can't only push Dooku's blade as far as his arms can extend, lol. If he has enough strength, he can push Dooku's blade with enough force to move it even after his blade loses contact with Dooku's. With enough strength, he can definitely push it a considerable distance or even disarm the Count entirely. You're making this up on the spot. There's no reason why Yoda couldn't have pushed Dooku's blade more, like he did against Sidious in RotS. He definitely pushed Palpatine's blade more than "as far as his arms can extend".

Maul is a creature of rage, he held himself together for ten years on rage, he doesn't need the death of a Savage to call on that level of anger to access that level of power, nor is such a situation likely to elevate him to new plateaus.

Other than his evidently different facial expression and demeanor, as well as another sharp increase in performance, with all the conditions for him being enraged being in place?

The only thing its inconsistent with is him being Yoda-level. 🙂

It's pretty damn hard to get an accurate judgment on how good TCW Anakin is since he's literally all over the place. I'll say that at his finest, he's Yoda-level.

Not really, there are only so many "weak points" on the body, the solar plexus being a major one. The only other way should could have KO'ed him is by dealing grievous injury, which evidently he didn't suffer.

Anyways its not typical for Ventress no, but its not that far out of reach, seeing as its possible to KO someone who is stronger than you, and Kenobi doesn't exactly eclipse her power at this point.

It's far out of reach for Ventress to be landing a knockout blow so early on in the fight against Obi-Wan, especially when she's injured.

Sidious was toying with him lol, Anakin & Kenobi are not going to toy with Ventress.

That was your comparison, not mine.

Understand the difference between being angry and being maddened. And also understand the higher standard we must employ for those of Sith-disposition for whom anger and rage are bread and butter. For a Sith, this frankly isn't even unusual behaviour at all, its certainly not maddened - she's clearly in full control of her mental faculties.

Enhanced she may have been, but not enough to contend with a Yoda-level opponent.

Well, as I've said, Anakin is pretty inconsistent - he may not have been Yoda-level at that specific point. Regardless, Ventress was clearly enhanced enough that with sufficient expenditure of her Force reserves, she could repel strikes from such an opponent. That's why she retreats right after the GIF you posted.

Could it be argued that Yoda has an intrinsic disadvantage in a standard bladelock with his small size? When he fought Sidious he had a platform to stand on, but against Dooku he was dwarfed.

Personally though, looking at it I think it was a barely notable period of time and Yoda ended it as soon as he wanted to.

The part I'm referring to is when Yoda was "dwarfed" as well, since he was standing on even ground with Sidious. The blades were also aligned pretty much exactly the same way as the Dooku bladelock as well. There's no difference.