Where do people rank Senya and Vaylin?

Started by S_W_LeGenD13 pages

Originally posted by MythLord
That doesn't really change my point at all, however. TK is TK, even if used in offense or defense, the magnitude and potency would be the same just be used for different purposes.

Seriously?

The potency of a Telekinetic application would entirely rest upon the magnitude of effort behind it.

Originally posted by MythLord
It's possible Vos caught K'kruhk by surprise, but given how it happens twice throughout the fight, it seems to be more a pattern than a fluke. And Dooku's domination over Vos needs no confirmation: between objective sources stating it, and the length of the hold over Vos as well as his entire body shifting to Tyranus' will... it's pretty evident.

In both situations, defensive abilities were at fault.

Originally posted by MythLord
Potency is potency, whether used for attack or defense.

😕

Originally posted by MythLord
I believe that there's even sources confirming ones offensive output in the Force is directly proportional to his defensive output.

And they are?

Originally posted by MythLord
Besides, K'kruhk is hardly the only one we can use to scale for Dooku hurling ships.

Correction: both of them never hurled a Starship.

K'Kruhk caused one to crash.

Count Dooku flipped one over and pushed others.

Originally posted by MythLord
For example he's canonically far ahead of the Season 3 Savage that threw a ship pretty casually; or his superiority over the Dreadnaught manipulating Anakin and his rivals/superiors Asajj Ventress/Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Savage Opress pushed a Starship off the cliff. Nothing grand here.

I have pointed out before that Anakin Skywalker does not have consistency in his showings. His mindset was at fault or lack of mastery or possibly both. It would be foolish to use his top showings for scaling because they shit on even Yoda's.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Seriously?

The potency of a Telekinetic application would entirely rest upon the magnitude of effort behind it.

Never said it didn't. But I'd imagine if you're life is getting squeezed out of you, you'd try your best to defend yourself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In both situations, defensive abilities were at fault.

And they're proportional to their offense.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And they are?

The Jedi Knight game series and Jedi Academy Training Manual, IIRC. Just two off the top of my head. Then again, good old logic exists as well.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Correction: both of them never hurled a Starship.

K'Kruhk caused one to crash.

Count Dooku flipped one over and pushed others.

Savage Opress pushed a Starship off the cliff. Nothing grand here.

K'kruhk pulled one down, arguably more impressive than throwing it since he's simultaneously pulling down it's weight and working against the force of it's engines. Dooku hurled/pushed several of them.

Savage needed to hurl it a pretty noticeable distance for it to fall off a cliff, and yeah that's pretty fvcking impressive, especially for TCW.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have pointed out before that Anakin Skywalker does not have consistency in his showings. His mindset was at fault or lack of mastery or possibly both. It would be foolish to use his top showings for scaling because they shit on even Yoda's.

Anakin being inconsistent within the EU is based on... your arbitrary ranking? The only thing inconsistent is how much he'd grow within a month -- noticeably or vastly. I don't really care about mindsets since he'd be giving it his all to fight against Ventress or Trenox, and wouldn't be emotionally unbalanced in any way.

And his high showings don't sh!t on Yoda's, lmao. But by RotS he is meant to be approaching Yoda, anyways. 👆

Senya: Somewhere between Obi-Wan and Lord Scourge.

Vaylin: Somewhere between Vader and Malgus.

Originally posted by Geistalt
Senya: Somewhere between Obi-Wan and Lord Scourge.

Vaylin: Somewhere between Vader and Malgus.


Is Kenobi > Scrouge, and Vader > Malgus?

No. 🙂

Originally posted by MythLord
Never said it didn't. But I'd imagine if you're life is getting squeezed out of you, you'd try your best to defend yourself.

An individual can defend himself best when fully prepared for the eventuality. If caught off-guard, then good luck.

Originally posted by MythLord
And they're proportional to their offense.

This doesn't makes any sense.

The theories behind how Alter abilities work are as numerous as the theories of the Force. Science cannot explain them.

Taken from the Jedi Academy Training Manual

Do I need to explain the complexity of human behavior (and command of the Force) to you now? Perhaps.

In a confrontation between two Force-users, a number of variables would come into play that would (collectively) influence the outcome. They include talents, skills, intelligence, experience, raw power and weaknesses of the combatants involved. Point is that the two are not (necessarily) a carbon copy of each other in their abilities. One might be a Sith Warrior and the other might be a Sith Inquisitor.

Why do you think that different forms of Lightsaber combat exist? Because their is no such thing as one-shoe-fit-all in the matter of talents and situations.

K'Khruk might be good at moving objects but his precognitive abilities might not be on par with those of Quinlan Vos. The latter could exploit this shortcoming to his advantage and gain the upper hand. Additionally, Quinlan could be faster and smarter combatant. There are so many variables to consider. Of-course, if Quinlan finds himself on the receiving end of K'Khruk's Telekinetic powers, you can expect him to be in trouble in that instance. On top of complexities of behavior and Force powers, there is the element of decision-making; was K'Khruk attempting to kill his opponent or arrest him? Therefore, it is really foolish to pick a single talent of an individual and scale the strength(s) of others from it, ignoring other variables in the process.

Look no further than the example of a confrontation between Vaylin and Senya. Vaylin's known strengths are her command of the Force, speed and raw power; she could one-shot Senya at any point during the confrontation but she chose to fight the latter with a melee weapon, an area of combat where Senya excelled. In this manner, the outcome was a prolonged confrontation and possibility of defeat for Vaylin. Therefore, Vaylin's judgement is to be questioned.

Originally posted by MythLord
The Jedi Knight game series and Jedi Academy Training Manual, IIRC. Just two off the top of my head. Then again, good old logic exists as well.

I checked the latter source and noticed this:

Jedi heroes from all eras are as varied in their skills and abilities as any other kind of hero. Some Jedi are warriors, born to use the Force on the battlefield to banish the Dark Side. Others are born to be introspective seekers of knowledge, using meditation to peer into the secrets of the universe in search of truth.

Taken from the Jedi Academy Training Manual

Similar to my point-of-view.

Originally posted by MythLord
K'kruhk pulled one down, arguably more impressive than throwing it since he's simultaneously pulling down it's weight and working against the force of it's engines. Dooku hurled/pushed several of them.

You are overlooking the element of gravity here. Lifting a Starship from the ground and tossing it around like a missile, should be more difficult to perform than pulling one to the ground. The engine bit is interesting but there is no concrete estimation for it.

Count Dooku did not hurl any Starship; he managed to flip one over and push others. Try to understand the difference.

Originally posted by MythLord
Savage needed to hurl it a pretty noticeable distance for it to fall off a cliff, and yeah that's pretty fvcking impressive, especially for TCW.

Understand the meaning of the word hurl?

That starship was parked near the edge; Savage Opress pushed it off the cliff. Impressive, but nothing grand here.

Originally posted by MythLord
Anakin being inconsistent within the EU is based on... your arbitrary ranking? The only thing inconsistent is how much he'd grow within a month -- noticeably or vastly. I don't really care about mindsets since he'd be giving it his all to fight against Ventress or Trenox, and wouldn't be emotionally unbalanced in any way.

And his high showings don't sh!t on Yoda's, lmao. But by RotS he is meant to be approaching Yoda, anyways. 👆


Did you see Anakin Skwalker regularly throwing capital ships around? I wonder why such raw power was not enough to crush Asajj Ventress in an instant.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Pretty much everything Neph posts would qualify. Which is why he's universally derided.

I was actually referring to Azronger.