Combat speed vs

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There's also a weird feeling, making him slower, lol.

He is faster than the big guy.

I don't doubt the point you're trying to make,

Thanks.

but really, the examples you are using are a bit poor.

Why ?

I thought that my explanation was concise and the examples given perfectly illustrated it.

When a character is running all over the place we aren't in the case of an hand-to-hand situation so it is more a question of size, speed and distance of the "item" to intercept.

As for the Flash scan, will post when I can (unless someone beats me to it.

Ok.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@ghostman: Its 21 times the speed of light. Buenos Aires to Beijing is 19,255km, so dividing that by 0.003 seconds is 6.42e10^9 metres/second.

dude thanks!

I'm looking for that scan of Nightwing tying Flash up while he was moving at Super speed.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm looking for that scan of Nightwing tying Flash up while he was moving at Super speed.

Why are you so nitpicky with some, but not others? Are there no low showings of Nova's speed? He has been tagged before.

You ask for combat showings, I give you Batman tagging Cheetah, you disregard it. Why? Because Batman is not that fast? But I have just shown you multiple instances of him being that fast!

Anyway, for Reality warper:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/15272706_JLAOWAW-vs-Imperiex02.jpg]
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/15272707_JLAOWAW-vs-Imperiex03.jpg]
http://s4d2.turboimg.net/sp/678905270d41dc5c71bc13772a008d9b/JLAOWAW-vs-Imperiex04.jpg

Running straight at a probe, getting punched in the face.

Hulk blitzing those cowboys.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Running straight at a probe, getting punched in the face.

That's the kind of stuff I don't see as a speed feat. It's an interception and well, Flash is running at the probe.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's the kind of stuff I don't see as a speed feat. It's an interception and well, Flash is running at the probe.

But if a sniper shoots me in the face, it doesn't matter if I have all the advance warning in the world - I'm not intercepting that with my fist (or a bulletproof shield) without superfast reflexes.

Even if the bullet is coming straight at me.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But if a sniper shoots me in the face, it doesn't matter if I have all the advance warning in the world - I'm not intercepting that with my fist (or a bulletproof shield) without superfast reflexes.

Even if the bullet is coming straight at me.

The ease at intercepting a projectile mostly depends on four factors:

[list=1]
[*]The distance of the projectile.
[*]The size of the projectile.
[*]The speed of the projectile.
[*]The trajectory of the projectile.
[/list=1]

What do we know here ?

Uncle Flash is :
[list=1]
[*]Far away from the probe.
[*]Human-sized.
[*]Run as fast as Green Lantern's own projectiles.
[*]Run in a straight line directly to the Probe.
[/list=1]

The factors 1,2 and 3 greatly facilitates Flash's interception for the following reasons:

[list]
[*]The distance allows the Probe to spot him and anticipate his movements.
[*]He is human-sized which means he is a big projectile which makes his interception easier.
[*]His trajectory his extremely predictable and the Probe just needs to put her fist where Flash will be so he "impales" himself on the attack.
[/list]

As we saw above, the third point is a common tactic against Flash and projectile in general because at the end of the day, Flash does the job for his enemies by crashing into them (like the big guy I posted, or Flash impaling himself into Deathstroke's sword, or the feat of the Probe that you posted).

That make senses to me considering that Flash doesn't stay in hand-to-hand confrontation but mostly uses hit & run tactics to optimize his speed, the IMP being Flash using his speed at the top of his hit & run tactics.

😂

The sheer mental gymnastic alone is amusing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

The sheer mental gymnastic alone is amusing.

Do you mean that you need to do an effort to understand this ?

Originally posted by RealityWarper
The ease at intercepting a projectile mostly depends on four factors:

[list=1]
[*]The distance of the projectile.
[*]The size of the projectile.
[*]The speed of the projectile.
[*]The trajectory of the projectile.
[/list=1]

What do we know here ?

Uncle Flash is :
[list=1]
[*]Far away from the probe.
[*]Human-sized.
[*]Run as fast as Green Lantern's own projectiles.
[*]Run in a straight line directly to the Probe.
[/list=1]

The factors 1,2 and 3 greatly facilitates Flash's interception for the following reasons:

[list]
[*]The distance allows the Probe to spot him and anticipate his movements.
[*]He is human-sized which means he is a big projectile which makes his interception easier.
[*]His trajectory his extremely predictable and the Probe just needs to put her fist where Flash will be so he "impales" himself on the attack.
[/list]

Factor 1....has no proof, to be honest. Far away? Close? No proof either way.

Factor 2 is of course, inarguable.

Factor 3? We DO know Flash is running so quickly, he is actually running on pebble fragments/energy beams. So not just running on water fast, running on even less than that.

Factor 4 is the same as my sniper bullet. Just because I know you are aiming at my face, does not mean that I can punch it out of the way. Even if I know the exact trajectory (as helpfully provided by a laser dot). Even if it is a human sized bullet. Moreover, look at where the probes' fist is. Wally would have had to have been running at a pretty weird attack angle, for him to place his fist at that point.

IOW, it's a punch, not a placement of his hand (or clotheslines, if you will).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Factor 1....has no proof, to be honest. Far away? Close? No proof either way.

Factor 2 is of course, inarguable.

Factor 3? We DO know Flash is running so quickly, he is actually running on pebble fragments/energy beams. So not just running on water fast, running on even less than that.

Factor 4 is the same as my sniper bullet. Just because I know you are aiming at my face, does not mean that I can punch it out of the way. Even if I know the exact trajectory (as helpfully provided by a laser dot). Even if it is a human sized bullet. Moreover, look at where the probes' fist is. Wally would have had to have been running at a pretty weird attack angle, for him to place his fist at that point.

IOW, it's a punch, not a placement of his hand (or clotheslines, if you will). [/B]

Factor 1: Well, maybe if you tell me the issue I will check it by myself

F2: Yep.

F3: He is running side-by-side with the plasma rocket too and speaking with Green Lantern at the same time. If I remember correctly only Superman can talk at super-speed with Flash when he is running at full speed.

F4: The point is that Flash is clearly attacking the Probe and an human-sized projectile is clearly easier to spot and to tag than a sniper bullet which requires way more reflexes, senses and accuracy.

It is clearly complicated to estimate what is happening in the scene with precision.

I tend to see it the same way than the fight between Sentry and Hulk.

Sentry isn't rushing particularly fast considering that the scene clearly shows him talking before rushing Hulk and we can assume that between 2 and 4 seconds are passing in the moment he decides to rush Hulk.

I don't see that as a display of speed for the Hulk neither, he had a lot of time to estimate Sentry's trajectory and putting his fist in the way with the right timing isn't that hard considering that WWH has Banner's mathematics abilities.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Factor 1: Well, maybe if you tell me the issue I will check it by myself

The scans are all there, but it was the OWAW storyline - I only have the GN.

F3: He is running side-by-side with the plasma rocket too and speaking with Green Lantern at the same time. If I remember correctly only Superman can talk at super-speed with Flash when he is running at full speed.

They're conversing by telepathy. Hence the spikes on the speech bubble. So at the speed of thought.

F4: The point is that Flash is clearly attacking the Probe and an human-sized projectile is clearly easier to spot and to tag than a sniper bullet which requires way more reflexes, senses and accuracy.

It is clearly complicated to estimate what is happening in the scene with precision.

I tend to see it the same way than the fight between Sentry and Hulk.

Sentry isn't rushing particularly fast considering that the scene clearly shows him talking before rushing Hulk and we can assume that between 2 and 4 seconds are passing in the moment he decides to rush Hulk.

[B]I don't see that as a display of speed for the Hulk neither, he had a lot of time to estimate Sentry's trajectory and putting his fist in the way with the right timing isn't that hard considering that WWH has Banner's mathematics abilities. [/B]

Except Imperiex Probes don't have Gamma Maths helping them. Nor do they have Deathstroke's knowledge of the Flash (Same Flash, new costume, same mistakes), or his analytical brain.

It's not a speed feat for the Hulk, because in the scans IMMEDIATELY preceding yours, we can see that the Hulk is able to say words without much of a change in Sentry's position:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_24hA0B-kG4/VNh0SJ7C6sI/AAAAAAAH38o/YeLT--nnyJk/s1600/p5_10.jpg

So that gives an indication of Sentry's ramming speed, which in THIS scene, isn't all that fast.

Whereas Flash is running on energy/asteroid chunks in space.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

The scans are all there, but it was the OWAW storyline - I only have the GN.

I will look at it when I have more time.

They're conversing by telepathy. Hence the spikes on the speech bubble. So at the speed of thought.

That's right.

Except Imperiex Probes don't have Gamma Maths helping them. Nor do they have Deathstroke's knowledge of the Flash (Same Flash, new costume, same mistakes), or his analytical brain.

That's right but Flash is running in a straight line right into the Probe.

Is all of that really needed ?

It's not a speed feat for the Hulk, because in the scans IMMEDIATELY preceding yours, we can see that the Hulk is able to say words without much of a change in Sentry's position:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_24hA0B-kG4/VNh0SJ7C6sI/AAAAAAAH38o/YeLT--nnyJk/s1600/p5_10.jpg

So that gives an indication of Sentry's ramming speed, which in THIS scene, isn't all that fast.

I agree that Sentry isn't that fast and that his trajectory clearly facilitate the task at tagging him.

Whereas Flash is running on energy/asteroid chunks in space.

In short, we don't have any clear indication of the Flash's speed besides personal estimation.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

That's right but Flash is running in a straight line right into the Probe.

Is all of that really needed ?

I agree that Sentry isn't that fast and that his trajectory clearly facilitate the task at tagging him.

In short, we don't have any clear indication of the Flash's speed besides personal estimation.

He's not running straight into the probe - note how the probe actually uppercuts him with a punch, rather than a clotheslines.

Well, in a battle for the fate of the world, knowing that they are the last line of defence, AND being able to run on almost nothing (when it takes a lot of effort to run on water)....you cannot say that he's slow, or even at medium speeds.

And yet, the Probe tagged him. With an uppercut. Either he predicted the exact spot a speedster was going to be (which, yes, necessitates some kinda power like precog or fighting skills or something of that ilk) or he reacted to a speedster and punched him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's not running straight into the probe - note how the probe actually uppercuts him with a punch, rather than a clotheslines.

Let's look at the scans closer:

Here we have GL blocking a Probe's energy-blast proving that he can blast easily an human-sized target from this distance:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/47/1479927505-jla-our-worlds-at-war-pg02.jpg

On the second scan we have Flash whom come to the rescue just near GL and begin to run while following GL's plasma rockets and following the trail of the energy-blast, currently blasting GL.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/47/1479927501-jla-our-worlds-at-war-pg03.jpg

Then on the third scan we have Flash literally following the energy-blast coming from the Probe hands just above it:

Now we know that Flash is literally positioned in the trajectory of the Probe's hands AKA easily positioned to receive a punch.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/47/1479927503-jla-our-worlds-at-war-pg04.jpg

4th scan: The Probe hit Flash in the face and we can see that his right hand is imbued with the energy he just fired and when he hit Flash, this one received the blue energy of the blast in the face on top of the punch.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/47/1479927502-jla-our-worlds-at-war-pg05.jpg

That clearly shows several things:

[list]
[*]Flash wasn't fast enough to stop the Probe noticing him.
[*]Flash put himself in the trajectory of the blast thus in the trajectory of the Probe's punches allowing him to minimalize his moves to tag Flash
[*]According to the fact that the Probe had not much moves to do the need for speed required for this action wasn't big at all.
[/list]

Well, in a battle for the fate of the world, knowing that they are the last line of defence, AND being able to run on almost nothing (when it takes a lot of effort to run on water)....you cannot say that he's slow, or even at medium speeds.

Well, Flash is weightless in space and the speed force allows him to control his speed.

And yet, the Probe tagged him. With an uppercut. Either he predicted the exact spot a speedster was going to be (which, yes, necessitates some kinda power like precog or fighting skills or something of that ilk) or he reacted to a speedster and punched him.

The way I understand it this feat is similar to Hulk tagging Sentry in World War Hulk.

[list=1]
[*]Both weren't at the max of their speed by far.
[*]Both took a very predictable trajectory in a straight line.
[/list=1]

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

The sheer mental gymnastic alone is amusing.

I don't know if RW or Carter is worse, and both are so dense they think they're right. 😆

Oh the irony.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh the irony.

👆