Originally posted by Darth Thor
Of course. I'm just saying we don't know how long he was stranded on Malachor. So he might have been a little out of shape when he was there.Given none of that stopped Ahsoka improving. And given he quickly recouperated from his 10 years of doing nothing between TPM and TCW, I really don't see much of an argument for him having significantly downgraded.
Witwer also pointed out him being older won't negate much due to the level of training he's had.
The different between Ahsoka and Maul being Ahsoka was high end padawan level upon exiting the Order while Maul had been trained for decades prior to losing half his potential and the growing further in TCW. Clearly Ahsoka had more room to grow then Maul.
I agree that he wouldn't have significantly atrophied in skill.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The different between Ahsoka and Maul being Ahsoka was high end padawan level upon exiting the Order while Maul had been trained for decades prior to losing half his potential and the growing further in TCW. Clearly Ahsoka had more room to grow then Maul.I agree that he wouldn't have significantly atrophied in skill.
That's why my argument wasn't that he should have improved as much as Ahsoka. Just that he hasn't necessarily declined.
Originally posted by Darth ThorGiven none of that stopped Ahsoka improving. And given he quickly recouperated from his 10 years of doing nothing between TPM and TCW, I really don't see much of an argument for him having significantly downgraded.
This is true. I don't think he got worse with time, I just think he got better but not that better.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNovaWho Marek? That doesn't lend itself to your case...
The fact that it did as good or better against him then previous modules though admittedly that could be because he was unfamiliar with the Maul module or was growing tired from the constant assault by the other droids.
If he's physically damaged. The passage you quoted mentioned damage to his "brain" or processing unit. If the Core has direct control over PROXY then damage to that area isn't going to matter in regards to what he's capable of as a physical combatant.One might argue that the Core was using PROXY's brain as well, a proxy, but regardless its the damage to his body that is significant here. The Core cannot replace that.
Why not? PROXY's modules are based off every record available to him and given the holo-recordings of Maul were readily available to members of the RoT line PROXY should be able to replicate how Maul fights near perfectly. And what reason would he have to forget that fight when he's able to recall the fighting style of modules he faced years ago ( I.E. Obi Wan Kenobi )?That's irrelevant, the fact is that Marek barely got a flavour, and I doubt he memorised any of it. And naturally his ability to replicate how Maul fights would be relative to his limited capabilities as a droid.
And he spared with those modules many times, this one was completely alien to him.
Are you an idiot? Like legitimately, did you just ignore every part of the passage I bolded for you which clearly shows PROXY fighting past his normal capacity and Galen still fending him off with ease ending the fight as soon as he found a way to do so while also saving his friend? Get out of here.What's that supposed to prove aside from that u are mad? Nowhere does Marek fend him off with ease and his ability to overpower PROXY easily has little bearing on the fact he struggled with the complexity of his offense. And whether or not PROXY was fighting beyond normal capacity is rather irrelevant when you consider that on top of being potentially damaged his capabilities as a droid would still be well beneath Maul's, and that Marek was "far more powerful" there than the iteration in this matchup. Face it, he's outclassed.
And I except your concession on the last part given we both know Marek has nothing that compares. 🙂
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Who Marek? That doesn't lend itself to your case...One might argue that the Core was using PROXY's brain as well, a proxy, but regardless its the damage to his body that is significant here. The Core cannot replace that.
That's irrelevant, the fact is that Marek barely got a flavour, and I doubt he memorised any of it. And naturally his ability to replicate how Maul fights would be relative to his limited capabilities as a droid.
And he spared with those modules many times, this one was completely alien to him.
What's that supposed to prove aside from that u are mad?
And I except your concession on the last part.
Why wouldn't it? That only matters if you could prove that PROXY's capabilities were less then the actual Maul. And regardless the text states that Galen is tired from having just brought down a Star Destroyer.
There was no damage to his body that was mentioned. And prior passages show that the control the Core had over its droids was absolute. Even when Galen blasted them apart mangled half destroyed droids would continue to move towards him attempting to carry out the Core's orders until he destroyed them completely
Given he remembered the way the Kenobi module fought despite having faced it years ago I don't see any reason for him to forget a much more memorable event in his life. The near destruction of the only companion he had had for most of his life.
That's what I'm saying though. We don't know how much of Maul's capabilities PROXY was able to replicate being amped by the central core.
He sparred with the Obi Wan Kenobi module YEARS ago as I just said. That's stated in the novel.
It's supposed to prove that you either didn't even bother to read the post I provided for you or you simply ignored it in favor of what you believe occurred.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNovaYou said that Marek did as good or better against PROXY after he was damaged.
Why wouldn't it? That only matters if you could prove that PROXY's capabilities were less then the actual Maul. And regardless the text states that Galen is tired from having just brought down a Star Destroyer.
That doesn't lend itself to your case.
And I covered the excuses in my edit.
There was no damage to his body that was mentioned.It overloaded his circuitry in a "severe" effect, that's damage.
And prior passages show that the control the Core had over its droids was absolute. Even when Galen blasted them apart mangled half destroyed droids would continue to move towards him attempting to carry out the Core's orders until he destroyed them completelySo? That doesn't mean they were operating as effectively. 😂
Given he remembered the way the Kenobi module fought despite having faced it years ago I don't see any reason for him to forget a much more memorable event in his life. The near destruction of the only companion he had had for most of his life.Because he fought it presumably several times. That's how you memorise shit, through repetition. And the emotional significance of the event is completely irrelevant to his ability to memorise every move and manoeuvre, lmao.
That's what I'm saying though. We don't know how much of Maul's capabilities PROXY was able to replicate being amped by the central core.It doesn't matter, all that matters is how much of it Marek saw, and given the sheer brevity of the engagement, we must assume little.
This is not rocket science, as usual.
He sparred with the Obi Wan Kenobi module YEARS ago as I just said. That's stated in the novel.So he has a good long-term memory, great. That doesn't make it photographic.
It's supposed to prove that you either didn't even bother to read the post I provided for you or you simply ignored it in favor of what you believe occurred.Well see my edit, you'll love it.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNovaLmfao. But you're right, being associated with you is pretty embarrassing.
Keep going Beni. I'm having fun embarrassing you.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
You said that Marek did as good or better against PROXY after he was damaged.That doesn't lend itself to your case.
And I covered the excuses in my edit.
It overloaded his circuitry in a "severe" effect, that's damage.
So? That doesn't mean they were operating as effectively. 😂
Because he fought it presumably several times. That's how you memorise shit, through repetition. And the emotional significance of the event is completely irrelevant to his ability to memorise every move and manoeuvre, lmao.
It doesn't matter, all that matters is how much of it Marek saw, and given the sheer brevity of the engagement, we must assume little.
This is not rocket science, as usual.
So he has a good long-term memory, great. That doesn't make it photographic.
Well see my edit, you'll love it.
No I said PROXY did as good or better.
And the damage was stated to be in his "brain" or processing unit which he doesn't need with the Core controlling him.
You're right but since there was no mention of PROXY's body being damaged it would mean his capabilities are intact.
Key word there being "presumably" meaning that's your assumption. Regardless of how many times he fought him it's clear that he hadn't fought THAT particular program for a number of years.
"You caught me by surprise, PROXY," the man said with an easy affection that belied his former ferocity. "I haven't fought that training program in years. I assumed you'd erased it." - The Force Unleashed.
"It's my fault, master," the droid said with an electronic sigh, looking down at the smoking hole in his chest. "I had hoped that using an older training module would catch you off guard and allow me to finally kill you. I'm sorry I failed you again." - The Force Unleashed.
What makes you think the bout was short? Galen extended it for a presumably lengthy period as he tried to think of a way to disable PROXY without destroying him.
I didn't say it did. I just mentioned that he would be able to remember the general fighting style Maul employs if he was to face the real one.
As for your edit...
"Nowhere does Marek fend him off with ease"
The apprentice drove the android back with a series of fast strikes and acrobatic maneuvers. PROXY was nowhere near as flexible as him and had none of the Force-enhanced reflexes he possessed. The droid could never beat him at a lightsaber duel, even with the Core behind it. He fought with a single-minded intensity-one designed to empty his mind of all thought and feeling. The being he was fighting was neither Sith nor PROXY. It was the Core-and the time had come to stop playing with it. - The Force Unleashed.
"The apprentice didn't waste energy on speech, blocking each of the Core's moves and driving the droid a step backward." - The Force Unleashed.
"and his ability to overpower PROXY easily has little bearing on the fact he struggled with the complexity of his offense."
The moves were advanced yes. Some of them were ones Galen hadn't even seen before being from the highest levels of lightsaber combat.
"The Core had access to all the same records he did; its knowledge of Jedi lightsaber techniques might be unsurpassed in the entire galaxy." - The Force Unleashed.
He barely blocked a combination of blows that he had never seen before, even when fighting his Master." - The Force Unleashed.
Don't see how that changes the fact that Galen was holding back for the entirety of the fight and still fending off these offensives in an exhausted state.
"And whether or not PROXY was fighting beyond normal capacity is rather irrelevant when you consider that on top of being potentially damaged his capabilities as a droid would still be well beneath Maul's"
I already addressed the theory of PROXY being damaged and proved that the damage he sustained wouldn't have any bearing on his combative ability. Why would PROXY's upper limit when amped by the Core be Maul?
"and that Marek was "far more powerful" there than the iteration in this matchup. Face it, he's outclassed."
Galen in this instance was more powerful, certainly. But there's nothing to tell us what the gap between these two versions may have been. Outclassed in what way? I don't see SoD Maul having anything substantially better.
"And I except your concession on the last part given we both know Marek has nothing that compares."
What are you babbling on about here?