Originally posted by Beniboybling
Which diminished greatly over the course of 4,000 years, and which he was trapped on after being almost entirely stripped of his power by a Wall of Light conjured by the entire Jedi Order.
Quote? TOR Codex claims it only incresed in magnitude as time passed on:
For well over a thousand years now, the dark side of the Force has flowed through Yavin 4 in an ever-increasing magnitude.
-Yavin IV Codex entry
And wasn't the Wall of Light used to shield the planet to prevent Kun from escaping? I've never heard of them using it to sever Kun's Force connection.
Frankly its impressive that he still existed at all.
True.
In terms of his ability to channel his powers yes, not in terms of the power he possessed.
That's basically another way to say living Muur is stronger than Spirit Muur.
Originally posted by MythLord
Yup. Jedi Academy Training Manual says that Sith Spirits are only weakened in a sense that their powers cannot affect the physical plane, but that can be circumvented if they have a conduit(ala Kun/Kyp, Celeste/Muur, Vitiate/his voices).In other words, if their powers have a type of physical channel, any hinderence of being a spirit is basically removed(besides the lack of a physical body). Not only that but they can logically draw on the power of their hosts, as well.
That is, again, just another way of saying living beings are stronger than spirits. We're debating semantics here.
Still, a quote would be appreciated.
Originally posted by AzrongerThe fact that Luke didn't have any issues building a Jedi academy there for one, it would hardly be wise to do so on a planet saturated in the dark side.
Quote? TOR Codex claims it only incresed in magnitude as time passed on:For well over a thousand years now, the dark side of the Force has flowed through Yavin 4 in an ever-increasing magnitude.
-Yavin IV Codex entry
And wasn't the Wall of Light used to shield the planet to prevent Kun from escaping? I've never heard of them using it to sever Kun's Force connection.
And the WoL was described as a "crushing blow" designed to "extinguish the corrupted power of the Sith", or rather to eradicate, and though Kun survived he was left trapped inside his own temple, and unable to even perceive his surroundings, or reach out to Ulic:
http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4579328-3379636247-45744.jpg
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4579329-5565243555-45744.jpg
So we can only assume his power had been seriously depleted.
That's basically another way to say living Muur is stronger than Spirit Muur.No the distinction is important, because most of Muur's hype is based not on his feats, but on the fact he's made out to possess more power than 19 BBY Vader & Vong Krayt.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The fact that Luke didn't have any issues building a Jedi academy there for one, it would hardly be wise to do so on a planet saturated in the dark side.
A lot of thigs in SW don't make sense. That's not a valid reason to dismiss the quote.
And the WoL was described as a "crushing blow" designed to "extinguish the corrupted power of the Sith", or rather to eradicate, and though Kun survived he was left trapped inside his own temple, and unable to even perceive his surroundings, or reach out to Ulic:http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4579328-3379636247-45744.jpg
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4579329-5565243555-45744.jpgSo we can only assume his power had been seriously depleted.
Fair enough.
No the distinction is important, because most of Muur's hype is based not on his feats, but on the fact he's made out to possess more power than 19 BBY Vader & Vong Krayt.
I don't get what that has to do with it. What difference does it make if Muur is stated to possess less power as a spirit than when alive, or if he's stated to have the exact same amount of power as a spirit and as a living being but he can use only a limited amount of that power as a spirit? Both of them are just different ways of saying spirit Muur is weaker than living Muur. Their power levels don't change relative to Vader or Krayt.
Originally posted by AzrongerThe quote doesn't prove anything beyond the events of TOR, but rather the 1400 year period before TOR where Sadow, Nadd and Kun all added to the power of the moon in their own way. Post TOR nothing of significance occurs that would deepen its power, so logically it would go the way of Korriban and other Sith worlds and diminish instead. The fact that Luke was comfortable starting a Jedi academy there indicating as much.
A lot of thigs in SW don't make sense. That's not a valid reason to dismiss the quote.
I don't get what that has to do with it. What difference does it make if Muur is stated to possess less power as a spirit than when alive, or if he's stated to have the exact same amount of power as a spirit and as a living being but he can use only a limited amount of that power as a spirit? Both of them are just different ways of saying spirit Muur is weaker than living Muur. Their power levels don't change relative to Vader or Krayt.Because Vader by sensing the power of Muur directly (not by observing what power he could use through Morne) believed he might replace Palpatine as his master if he claimed the talisman, and its stated that Muur possessed more power than Krayt, exclusive of Morne.
Obviously if Muur possesses the same about of power in life as he did in death, the above would remain static.
Or in other words: Krayt > Muur = Spirit!Muur > Vong! Krayt > Hord.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
He had the Muur Talisman to preserve and sustain his essence.
Lies.
Muur's will and mind was preserved by the Muur Talisman, which acted just like the Temples for Kun or the Tombs for Nadd.
I'd ask for a source that Muur retained his power, but I know you don't have one.
I do have these on the other hand:
Muur created not simply a holocron, but the talisman - into which he invested his very mind and will.
- Legacy
"Karness Muur requested I create this, but it shall be my triumph. My experimentation with the Heart of Graush and my alchemic mastery of raising Sithspawn will culminate in the first Great Amulet to be worn by one of the Lords of the Sith._Its power will transform the feeble-minded into braying rakghouls, whose actions are the result of the wearer's desire. It will also preserve the wearer's spirit should he fall in combat."
- Sorzus Syn, Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side
Muur was never as powerful as he was in his prime, supported by the fact that he states Celeste Morne isn't worthy of the Talisman and he needed more powerful Force users than her to set himself free.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Lies.
Muur's will and mind was preserved by the Muur Talisman, which acted just like the Temples for Kun or the Tombs for Nadd.😕I'd ask for a source that Muur retained his power, but I know you don't have one.
...She doesn't have the strength to stop Vader. But Karness Muur does.
"What have you done woman? That power is mine!"
On Had Abbadon, in the Deep Core, Krayt confronted Skywalker a second time. But a third Force-user possessed powers that outshone them both. Karness Muur, an ancient Sith spirit, blasted Krayt with overpowering energy, sending him over a cliff to the rocks below.
But Vader has come to a crux of his own. He can feel the power the talisman holds.Maybe stop wasting my time by asking after the blinding obvious? Lmao.
Not sure why you brought up Nadd or Kun either, seeing as the aforementioned tombs and temples too preserved what was left of their strength, but besides that their circumstances were quite different. 👆
Muur was never as powerful as he was in his prime, supported by the fact that he states Celeste Morne isn't worthy of the Talisman and he needed more powerful Force users than her to set himself free.Quite, he thought Morne was not worthy of wielding his power, so sought out more fitting conduits, and the fact he needed immense strength to forge himself a new body is hardly surprising, something you continually fail to grasp.
Try coming back to me when you've more than half-baked ideas and quote spam to support your claims.
@Beni - Even provided that the Talisman contains the same amount of power as Muur did in life, that doesn't mean Talisman! Muur = living Muur. We're forgetting that his feats in Celeste's body entail being in a vessel of limited ability to channel the Force (which you said before), and the fact that Celeste would've surely been mentally contesting with Muur for control over her own body, which would hinder his powers to an extent.
Regardless, Krayt beats ol' Hord. People seem to be treating Hord > all of the Ancients bar Ragnos & Nadd as a fact, and I'm still not seeing how. The Endar Spire feat, assuming there's no exaggeration, isn't even all that amazing, lol. Not to mention that Hord's Tomb seems to be the weakest nexus of the Ancient Sith.
Or he might be, there is nothing concrete regarding how much stronger Krayt got and how stronger than Krayt Muur was.
EDIT: And this one, http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t637633.html
Well, it's down to "mights" at this point. With nothing definitive either way, it's up to us to make our own personal judgments on the matter.
And if Cade lasted as well against him as Zoltan says, then I'm thinking there wasn't a colossal gap.
As for how much of a difference there was between Muur and Krayt, Muur seemed to be on the winning end against both Krayt and Maladi, even in Celeste's body.
