Darth Sidious & Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun & Ulic Qel-Droma

Started by AncientPower8 pages

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Surprised? How so?

2. Yeah - a minute. Most duels don't last that long - and they certainly won't with the discrepancy between Palpatine and Qel-Droma.

People don't tend to throw away their only weapon.

If even that? The only time context we get is that Luke throws his weapon away, meditates and uses every defensive application of the Force he knew whilst Kyp attacked him, he goes to counter Kyp but Kun intervened and attacked him as well, rendering him comatose.

That's a limited and weakened spirit Kun as well, prime Kun is undoubtedly reacting much faster. If he even needs tendrils.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You mean the blast he casually knocked Aleema out with, before glowing with more power than any of her magic has ever afforded her? Sure.

You mean when he casually hypnotized tens of thousands of people whils stomping Vodo? Sure.

No I mean how weak his blasts are that they can barely knock someone down, and how his elite Sorcery couldn't beat a Tree Jedi and failed to even affect force users. But keep ignoring how inconsistent he is to push your ridiculous bias lmao

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nice DS ending content you have there.

Lmao, says the one who uses DS, LS, moddes content from KotOR II.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why did he need to? He's not trying to dodge the attack, he's trying to form a Force barrier, which doesn't require physical movement.

Because he's so close to the Emperor that he could just strike him down on the spot with his lightsaber. That's what he'd be doing. Plus, the Emperor throws away his saber in the middle of a bladelock, so Galen should've still been pushing forwards.

Originally posted by AncientPower
People don't tend to throw away their only weapon.

If even that? The only time context we get is that Luke throws his weapon away, meditates and uses every defensive application of the Force he knew whilst Kyp attacked him, he goes to counter Kyp but Kun intervened and attacked him as well, rendering him comatose.

That's a limited and weakened spirit Kun as well, prime Kun is undoubtedly reacting much faster. If he even needs tendrils.

1. Well, to be honest, throwing away your lightsaber in the middle of a bladelock is basically allowing somebody to move their blade forwards. Galen's muscles would still be trying to push ahead. So he should've still cleaved the Emperor in two, but Palpatine hurled him away before even his instinctive movement could happen. That's a blitz.

2. In any case, it's a protracted spell that's longer than Palpatine vs Qel-Droma. I don't see why Palpatine can't just ragdoll him either.

Originally posted by carthage
No I mean how weak his blasts are that they can barely knock someone down, and how his elite Sorcery couldn't beat a Tree Jedi and failed to even affect force users. But keep ignoring how inconsistent he is to push your ridiculous bias lmao

She was knocked out and would've been insignificant in the hours long exchange between Ulic and Kun. 😂

He didn't even try to kill Ood Bnar, he was about to be hit by a super nova and had an entire trove of 'more knowledge than he could ever need' waiting on his ship. 😂

'Failed to effect Force users' he wasn't targeting. Like he specifically targeted the senate and kept tens of thousands of them frozen whilst he stomped Vodo, who is more powerful than f*cking Thon. 😂

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Lmao, says the one who uses DS, LS, moddes content from KotOR II.

I've never used DS KOTOR II content, that's SunRazer. 😂

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Well, to be honest, throwing away your lightsaber in the middle of a bladelock is basically allowing somebody to move their blade forwards. Galen's muscles would still be trying to push ahead. So he should've still cleaved the Emperor in two, but Palpatine hurled him away before even his instinctive movement could happen. That's a blitz.

2. In any case, it's a protracted spell that's longer than Palpatine vs Qel-Droma. I don't see why Palpatine can't just ragdoll him either.

Except your entire argument is hinged on that assumption, which could be wrong as Ant is saying.

A potracted spell? You're making more assumptions, Kun's blasts were instant and were hitting almost as quickly in the Audio Drama.

I'm still seeing nothing suggesting he's blitzing Ulic, whose speed feats are frankly more impressive than Galen's. Esecially if we consider the fact that Galen's best speed feats are against a Vader who has been implied to not even be going all-out, or even really cares.

I'm all for using obscure content, but speculating from a DS Wii version of something and then using it to say Palpatine can blitz Marek-tier beings is borderline insanity.

And I have Palps higher than Valk or GM Luke. 😬

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm all for using obscure content, but speculating from a DS Wii version of something

It's the Wii, PS2 and PSP versions of the game - so actually the majority of the game editions.

and then using it to say Palpatine can blitz Marek-tier beings is borderline insanity.

Firstly, you talking about insanity? After trying to put Revan up with Vitiate because he got smoked? lol

And why not? This is a more powerful version of Sidious than the one in RotS, who struck down two Masters before Mace could react. Not saying he blitzes Mace, but if he's able to do that, then blitzing Marek-tier characters isn't really as insane as you're making it out to be.

And I have Palps higher than Valk or GM Luke. 😬

That... doesn't matter, lol.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Except your entire argument is hinged on that assumption, which could be wrong as Ant is saying.

I think we can assume that Galen was trying to overpower Sidious in the bladelock and not just holding his lightsaber up there for show.

There's also the RotS feat I mentioned above, and Palpatine blitzing Maul in Shadow Conspiracy. Both instances being from well before TFU.

A potracted spell? You're making more assumptions, Kun's blasts were instant and were hitting almost as quickly in the Audio Drama.

The one in JA was protracted.

I'm still seeing nothing suggesting he's blitzing Ulic, whose speed feats are frankly more impressive than Galen's. Esecially if we consider the fact that Galen's best speed feats are against a Vader who has been implied to not even be going all-out, or even really cares.

Vader was caring after a while.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ah OT wank at its finest.

If any of you think I actually believe Kun > Sidious or Ulic > Luke then you're incredibly naive. On the contrary, I just find the squealing and moaning abut the very concept that Sheev could possibly be challenged, incredibly amusing.

The amount of investment in your own collective head canon is the best part.

What an astounding lack of self awareness you've developed there. 😂

Nova, even disregarding the fact that the scene you're using to make your argument is non canon and thus posseses no bearing on anything, Sidious force pushes Marek in the midst of a blade lock. It shows Sidious turning off his lightsaber and while the blade is shutting off Sidious dropping the hilt and using a force push that sends Galen flying back.

Since you probably won't accept the fact that it's an animation error then we have to ask why Sidious would logically do this? Well for starters shutting off his blade while in a blade lock is not only going to surprise his opponent but also off balance him. If he did manage to blitz him as your suggesting then that means Marek wouldn't have been able to actively shield himself. And if Marek did manage to actively shield himself then Sidious isn't capable of actually blitzing someone of that tier. Even assuming the former it's unlikely that Galen wouldn't have reacted because Sidious was too fast for him but for the reasons stated above.

In either case ( Galen having put up an active barrier or it just being a passive barrier ) Sidious didn't demonstrate telekinetic domination only managing to blast Galen back. In the former case it confirms his inability to blitz an opponent of Galen's power and in the latter it means that he can only push back a Galen level Force user who wasn't even actively shielding himself. And in that case it would still be unlikely that Sidious landing a Force push was because he was too fast for Marek to react.

It should be made clear that all of that's utterly irrelevant as the events you're referencing never took place and have no bearing on anything.

As Mace couldn't react as Sidious slaughtered Agen and Saesee, I think Ulic should last a few seconds at best against DE Sidious.

Tbh I place Ulic a bit above Mace myself.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Mace couldn't react as Sidious slaughtered Agen and Saesee, I think Ulic should last a few seconds at best against DE Sidious.
👆

And Ulic never blitzed Warb Null, lol.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nova, even disregarding the fact that the scene you're using to make your argument is non canon and thus posseses no bearing on anything

You already know how I view this stuff, lol. Non-canon means it doesn't happen in the official timeline. But it's valid because the character's power levels haven't been altered. We're not here to discuss what did happen, but rather, what can happen, with regard to the character's power levels.

Sidious force pushes Marek in the midst of a blade lock. It shows Sidious turning off his lightsaber and while the blade is shutting off Sidious dropping the hilt and using a force push that sends Galen flying back.

If you watch it in slow-motion, you'll notice that Palpatine deactivates the lightsaber, then throws away the lightsaber, then hurls Galen. The last two were possibly done in simultaneity, but my case isn't altered. Sidious deactivating his lightsaber means that Galen's application of pressure would make him continue to move forwards, but Sidious hurled him back before that could happen.

Don't you obsess over physics? If so, this is really just inertia. Palpatine deactivating his lightsaber means that there's no longer a force balancing out the pushing force Galen's putting on his lightsaber, so it should move forwards. And since they were so close, Palpatine should've been cleaved in half, but he managed to push Galen back before that.

Watch it at 0.25x speed. Sidious deactivates his lightsaber, and before Galen or his lightsaber can even move forwards, Sidious is hurling him back.

Since you probably won't accept the fact that it's an animation error then we have to ask why Sidious would logically do this? Well for starters shutting off his blade while in a blade lock is not only going to surprise his opponent but also off balance him. If he did manage to blitz him as your suggesting then that means Marek wouldn't have been able to actively shield himself. And if Marek did manage to actively shield himself then Sidious isn't capable of actually blitzing someone of that tier. Even assuming the former it's unlikely that Galen wouldn't have reacted because Sidious was too fast for him but for the reasons stated above.

What animation error?

My case would suggest that Galen isn't actively shielding himself, which is fine since Sidious isn't even hurling with the intent to kill, just to leave him on the floor for a while. Which is precisely what happens. Galen only gets up and starts running after the ship starts coming towards him, by which time it's too late.

In either case ( Galen having put up an active barrier or it just being a passive barrier ) Sidious didn't demonstrate telekinetic domination only managing to blast Galen back. In the former case it confirms his inability to blitz an opponent of Galen's power and in the latter it means that he can only push back a Galen level Force user who wasn't even actively shielding himself. And in that case it would still be unlikely that Sidious landing a Force push was because he was too fast for Marek to react.

The use of the word "unlikely" seems to suggest that you're admitting my case is a possibility at the least.

In any case, Galen wouldn't have been able to put up an active defense. Which doesn't harm my point. Sidious was only attacking to floor Galen, and he succeeded. Nowhere did I mention telekinetic domination. That only appears in another DS version.

it was an animation error!!111!

😂 👆

Sheev blitzes both Kun and Ulic if we use the Darth Maul scaling.