Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah, and I don't see why Cytorrak couldn't just give him enough power to crush Doomsday from the start
Because Cytrorrak isn't in the fight? Can't just add outside amps when you feel like it. Besides, that's never happened in a meaningful way before so it's all speculation
Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah, and I don't see why Cytorrak couldn't just give him enough power to crush Doomsday from the start, after all the destruction that these two would cause would certainly please Cytorrak. Unless of course Doomsday is above Cytorrak?
Well if we're going to speculate on what Cytotrrak does, then he takes all the power from Cain and gives it Doomsday, a creature who has certainly caused more death and destruction across worlds than Cain has.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought if none was specified, we take the latest showings without amps/depowerment, unless sufficient showings exist that said amps/depowerment were pretty long term?
In that case DD beats a lesser Cain, and loses to the most powerful version of him. Seems pretty simple to me.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool. So Juggy wins, except when he loses. Indeed, it is simple.
No. Let me say it in a manner that you may be able to easier comprehend.
1. The weaker versions of Cain will lose. These are the ones that are vulnerable to physical attacks. For example the Wrecking Crew beat the tar out of Cain in a weakened state.
2. DD will lose to 8th Day and higher versions of Cain such as Trion Juggernaut, because he wouldn't have any time to evolve before he was defeated.
3. Both at average would simply stalemate.
4. Since we know that Cytorrak can increase the amount of power that Cain can walk around with based on the knowledge that he was able to make him weaker, and then turn around and give him enough power to fight the Green Scar version of the Hulk on equal footing, we can conclude that Cytorrak can indeed increase Cain's power on the fly.
Originally posted by Stoic
No. Let me say it in a manner that you may be able to easier comprehend.1. The weaker versions of Cain will lose. These are the ones that are vulnerable to physical attacks. For example the Wrecking Crew beat the tar out of Cain in a weakened state.
2. DD will lose to 8th Day and higher versions of Cain such as Trion Juggernaut, because he wouldn't have any time to evolve before he was defeated.
3. Both at average would simply stalemate.
4. Since we know that Cytorrak can increase the amount of power that Cain can walk around with based on the knowledge that he was able to make him weaker, and then turn around and give him enough power to fight the Green Scar version of the Hulk on equal footing, we can conclude that Cytorrak can indeed increase Cain's power on the fly.
1. Agreed.
2. Those aren't in the thread, but also agreed.
3. Wait, now DD has all the time in the world to evolve. Why stalemate?
4. We also know Cytorrak is fickle, and will take power and give power according to who brings the most destruction. We can then conclude that he would favour DD (whose name is actually feared across multiple planets, the GLC, hell, even Darkseid for the destruction he brings) over Cain.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. Agreed.
2. Those aren't in the thread, but also agreed.
3. Wait, now DD has all the time in the world to evolve. Why stalemate?
4. We also know Cytorrak is fickle, and will take power and give power according to who brings the most destruction. We can then conclude that he would favour DD (whose name is actually feared across multiple planets, the GLC, hell, even Darkseid for the destruction he brings) over Cain.
In response to 4.
DD would not be the avatar of Cytorrak. So I don't see your point as it becomes nullified. Cain is Cytorraks only means of interacting with the physical universe under most writers pens. Doomsday isn't. The sheer destruction that these two would cause would indeed please Cytorrak according to on panel citation. Trying to give either the win pretty much leads us nowhere which is why my first statement is eternal stalemate, unless of course Cytorrak tires of the shenanigans and pours an extreme amount of his power into his avatar. In which case we have seen 8th Day Juggernaut or Trion Juggernaut. Both are still Juggernaut, but at different levels of power. It's much simpler to just say eternal stalemate than to go into who has or can tap into a greater power pool.
Originally posted by Stoic
In response to 4.DD would not be the avatar of Cytorrak. So I don't see your point as it becomes nullified. Cain is Cytorraks only means of interacting with the physical universe under most writers pens. Doomsday isn't. The sheer destruction that these two would cause would indeed please Cytorrak according to on panel citation. Trying to give either the win pretty much leads us nowhere which is why my first statement is eternal stalemate, unless of course Cytorrak tires of the shenanigans and pours an extreme amount of his power into his avatar. In which case we have seen 8th Day Juggernaut or Trion Juggernaut. Both are still Juggernaut, but at different levels of power. It's much simpler to just say eternal stalemate than to go into who has or can tap into a greater power pool.
Why wouldn't he be?
Living Monolith had the power
Colossus
Cytorrak has form in giving it to people he thinks will cause more destruction.
I mean, hell, he even put a casting call out for it.
Originally posted by Stoic
For one, Cain can not die. We also saw him lose his entire body mass on panel so whether or not the sword was capable of cleaving his head off or not, the fact still remains that it probably wouldn't have killed him. Not trying to take anything away from War Hulk, but I'm also not trying to give him anything that we didn't actually see on panel either.
where was it stated he cant die? we dont know if losing his head would kill him or not. but we do have an indication, which is the fight between him and war hulk. cain gave up and was portrayed as scared and knew war hulk can kill him. if getting decapitated doesnt kill him then he would just continue to fight war hulk and wouldnt care less. cain knows about his powers. he laughed when he got burned to skeleton he knew he will be fine and regenerate. but in this fight, he was scared to lose his head. i think its safe to say that this is a good indication that he indeed was about to get killed in that issue and thats the way he can be killed.