Ben Kenobi >> Darth Vader?

Originally posted by Petrus
So Maul was 'valiant' and is 'not to be mocked' because you say so, right? While Vader gets to be trashed, is pathetic and is a failure also because you say so. Okay, sure. I see how this works.

ROFLMAO. That was a very good cheap shot. Well done. 👆

That logic is just absolutely terrible. [/B]

Vader survived 3rd degree burns throughout all of his body, losing all of his limbs and being basically destroyed by burning lava. He rose to power afterwards and became one of the galaxy's most feared individuals. Two can play this game.

[/B]

Kenobi was not a wreck, he was feeding off his rage, just like Anakin did against the poor Sand People. Not a comparable situation. An emotionally stable and mentally balanced Anakin would've tooled Kenobi, and we all know it, not just us "Vader fanboys". You denying it doesn't change shit. Why don't you go check Gillard's tiers, hm? [/B]

Again, you're completely ignoring the context and also blatantly ignoring the fact that Anakin pushed him back basically the whole fight. 😬

The passes you give Maul and the double standards need to stop. [/B]

Maul has been given no passes and unlike Vader he has disarmed Kenobi as well as force push him away in defeat. He also unbalanced him with anger something that occurred to crybaby Anakin.

He cried while he burned. He's a *****. He will always be a *****. Like the peso.

It is confirmed. Quan hates Vader as much as he hates Superman and for that reason will never rank him accurately.

Originally posted by playa1258
It is confirmed. Quan hates Vader as much as he hates Superman and for that reason will never rank him accurately.

Originally posted by quanchi112
These are different circumstances. Maul didn't choose to fight Sidious who was better than him. He defended himself. Vader decided to fight Kenobi who defended himself. Kenobi wasn't as skilled yet he still prevailed.

You just admitted Kenobi wasn't as skilled. /argument

Note the differences you moron.

#Triggered.

I really get on your nerves, don't I?

In debating we explain why it is. We don't make vague inflammatory statements and not give your reasons.

Because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with Vader, lol. You point out Vader's failures, I pointed out Maul's. Or are you denying Maul has had serious failures throughout his life?

Vader was rescued by Palpatine and given a suit which prolonged his pitiful and miserable existence by decades.

And Maul was rescued by Savage, who took him to Talzin, who cured him of his uselessness and madness. 😬

He was a high ranking official in the empire in a time the Jedi were decimated and were forced to go into hiding.

Yes. What's your point? He would've been made a high ranking official with Jedi around or not.

He didn't amass any power on his own it was all given to him at his feet thanks to the guy who completely manipulated him into being his man slave for decades.

Oh, you're talking about the same guy that also made Maul his man slave for decades?

And of course he didn't amass anything, the Empire was his master's. Why would he need to? The fact that he needn't amass power of his own isn't proof that he couldn't, should it have been necessary.

Yes, it is comparable because both were experiencing rage due to their emotions. Saying would have isn't the same thing as what actually happened. We see a composed Vader meet up later with Kenobi and he held no advantage prior to Kenobi to give up fighting. Just because Anakin can't handle fear very well and Kenobi can and has that doesn't make it an excuse for one and not another. This demonstrates how mentally weak Anakin was throughout his entire lifetime. We see it again and again. Attack of the clones against Dooku. Against Kenobi, etc.

The fact that Anakin was 'mentally weak' does not at all mean he was Kenobi's inferior in terms of combative abilities. Look, I don't give a shit that Anakin was more emotionally fragile than Kenobi, what I'm saying is that this affected their duel and the outcome a lot. Are you going to deny that, too?

He pushed him back but ultimately lost the fight. Who cares if he pushed him back but was ineffective at disarming or injuring Kenobi. You're a stupid person. I don't care if Kenobi masturbates while running away. He won the fight.

Again you're failing to follow your own advice. Con-text. CONTEXT. Context. Got it?

Maul has been given no passes and unlike Vader he has disarmed Kenobi as well as force push him away in defeat. He also unbalanced him with anger something that occurred to crybaby Anakin.

You're giving Maul all the passes and completely ignoring all his failures.

He cried while he burned. He's a *****. He will always be a *****. Like the peso.

Yeah, using it twice is kinda unoriginal. Come on, you can find a better way to insult me. Well, try.

Rank he accurately my ass. You just troll Vader fans because he is powerful and popular.

You do the same with Superman.

Luke is also a favorite target of yours. I fully expect you to lowball Luke no matter what he does.

Kenobi>anakin guys:
"His hands seized Obi-Wan's wrists with impossible strength, forcing his arms wide. "I am so sick of your lectures!"

Dark power bore down with his grip.

Obi-Wan felt the bones of his forearms bending, beginning to feather toward the greenstick fractures that would come before the final breaks.

Oh, he thought. Oh, this is bad."

"A roar of the Force blasted Obi-Wan back into a wall, smashing breath from his lungs, leaving him swaying, half stunned. Anakin stepped over bodies and lifted his blade for the kill."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

"Obi knows that Anakin is better than him, but because he taught him, he knows emotionally how he’s going to behave."

Source: http://www.theforce.net/episode3/story/nick_gillard_talks_rots_game_92147.asp

"When I started, I figured that a youngling is a level one. And somebody like Kit Fisto - seven. I did take it to eight and nine, but not many people know that. Eight and nine is cheat. So Obi-Wan is eight. Yoda is nine. Mace is eight, bordering on nine. Anakin is nine."

Source: https://youtu.be/Z2-iZNQrFBA?t=908

As Anakin’s lightsaber hummed toward him, a calm certainty filled Obi-Wan. Anakin was going to kill him. Oh, he’d make Anakin work for it. He’d fight with everything he had. But he was positive, with the sureness that came from any Force-driven insight, that he would die at Anakin’s hands.

Source: Revenge of the Sith Junior Novelization

Originally posted by Petrus
You just admitted Kenobi wasn't as skilled. /argument

#Triggered.

I really get on your nerves, don't I?[/B]

Because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with Vader, lol. You point out Vader's failures, I pointed out Maul's. Or are you denying Maul has had serious failures throughout his life? [/B]

And Maul was rescued by Savage, who took him to Talzin, who cured him of his uselessness and madness. 😬
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Yes. What's your point? He would've been made a high ranking official with Jedi around or not.

Oh, you're talking about the same guy that also made Maul his man slave for decades?

And of course he didn't amass anything, the Empire was his master's. Why would he need to? The fact that he needn't amass power of his own isn't proof that he couldn't, should it have been necessary.
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It's much easier to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth than go make your fortune on your own. You're a special kind of moron. Vader held all the advantages.

The fact that Anakin was 'mentally weak' does not at all mean he was Kenobi's inferior in terms of combative abilities. Look, I don't give a shit that Anakin was more emotionally fragile than Kenobi, what I'm saying is that this affected their duel and the outcome a lot. Are you going to deny that, too?
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Again you're failing to follow your own advice. Con-text. CONTEXT. Context. Got it?

You're giving Maul all the passes and completely ignoring all his failures.

Yeah, using it twice is kinda unoriginal. Come on, you can find a better way to insult me. Well, try. [/B]

You're from a poor country I can treat you just as the United States treats your people; like shit.

Originally posted by playa1258
Rank he accurately my ass. You just troll Vader fans because he is powerful and popular.

You do the same with Superman.

Luke is also a favorite target of yours. I fully expect you to lowball Luke no matter what he does.

Luke crushed his dad despite the lack of experience. Quit going off topic I do not care for your petty emotional outbursts. Just like a Vader fan to cry out foul when someone doesn't give their lord their worship. He's overrated and a loser. Facts support my case.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He isn't but he still won which is actually worse for Vader. We see better teams lose all the time to inferior skilled teams. What matters is how they perform on that given day. Vader lost to someone he should beat but never was able to best skill wise. Yeah, that makes Vader look inept.

I feel like I'm talking to a machine that cannot comprehend the reasons when explained to it. I won't say it again.

Nah, I just enjoy mocking someone with the limited intelligence you seem to consistently perpetuate on a daily basis around here.

😂 Yeah, I have limited intelligence, Quan. Your mocking hurts. Plz stawp.

The difference is Vader's are more egregious. Maul losing to a superior opponent he didn't seek out is to be expected. Vader losing against his master whom he is superior to skill wise is awful. Vader was never the master throughout his life unlike Maul. Maul laid out his own plans which garnered the attention of Vader's master. Vader never became his own man or created his own destiny. It was always at the behest of someone else's tutelage.

You fail to see that I do not give a shit about this, and that I do not actually believe Maul is a failure. But your double standards are mind-blowing, in that you see Vader as an absolute failure when Maul clearly has failed in life several times. Hard. Open your eyes to objectivity.

Yes, he was insane but he still managed to survive of his own accord despite his injuries unlike Vader.

Are you implying Maul would've been able to survive the exact same injuries Vader had after his fight with Kenobi without the help of someone else or without the suit? Nah, even you are not that retarded.

My point is obvious and that he did so with less competition and with the backing of a galactic empire. Much easier to do so in the position he was in.

Yes. And? That's in no way proof that Vader wouldn't have been able to achieve stuff with more competition in the way.

Maul eventually became the master and opposed Sidious. In fact due to his own machinations Palpatine considered him a peer. Vader was just someone who served up his own replacement in true cuckold fashion, his son.
😂

Lmao @ at your belief that Palpatine considering him a 'peer' means something. Had Vader rebelled and acquired power on his own, he would've been his 'peer', too.

The only reason why Maul eventually opposed Sidious was because his time at the side of the Dark Lord was over because a Padawan sliced him in half and he was believed dead. Had this not happened, how do you even ****ing know Maul would've even had the balls to oppose him directly? You don't.

It's much easier to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth than go make your fortune on your own. You're a special kind of moron. Vader held all the advantages.

Your insults are cute 😂

Tough. It's like saying the Warriors lost the finals because someone had a rough week. Man the **** up. Deal with your emotions. Kenobi dealt with tragedy and was better off than Anakin who was arrogant and emotional. You don't get to ignore his weak emotional makeup and only focus on his skill. Vader isn't just a skill set he is a character with emotional baggage. You don't get to dismiss it because you're a fanboy.

Can't believe you're actually implying that it's not easy to know if mental and emotional state have an impact on someone's abilities. It's obvious.

I feel like I'm talking to a goddamn wall here. Listen. I'm talking strictly about Anakin's combative abilities when compared to Kenobi's. I couldn't care less about the whole baggage and shit. Was Vader's performance affected by his emotional and mental state, yes or no? It's an easy answer.

If you answer yes, you're basically conceding because that was my point all along and you conveniently failed to see it.

Oh and yeah, I guess it's pretty easy for someone to just overcome all the tragedy, death and sadness going on in their lives and fight like nothing's happened. Kenobi's mentally tougher, sure. Kenobi's not the superior combatant. That was my point all along.

No, I accepted everything that happened. Maul doesn't get passes for overconfidence. What happened happened. He did skill wise show up Kenobi whereas Vader never did. Years later when he wasn't an emotional wreck he didn't best Kenobi through skill either.

The duel never even ended, lol.

You're from a poor country I can treat you just as the United States treats your people; like shit. [/B]

😂

You know, when you attack someone with things like that, it goes a long way to show what type of guy you really are.

Originally posted by Petrus
I feel like I'm talking to a machine that cannot comprehend the reasons when explained to it. I won't say it again.

😂 Yeah, I have limited intelligence, Quan. Your mocking hurts. Plz stawp.

You fail to see that I do not give a shit about this, and that I do not actually believe Maul is a failure. But your double standards are mind-blowing, in that you see Vader as an absolute failure when Maul clearly has failed in life several times. Hard. Open your eyes to objectivity.
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Are you implying Maul would've been able to survive the exact same injuries Vader had after his fight with Kenobi without the help of someone else or without the suit? Nah, even you are not that retarded.
[/B]

Yes. And? That's in no way proof that Vader wouldn't have been able to achieve stuff with more competition in the way.
[/B]

Lmao @ at your belief that Palpatine considering him a 'peer' means something. Had Vader rebelled and acquired power on his own, he would've been his 'peer', too.

The only reason why Maul eventually opposed Sidious was because his time at the side of the Dark Lord was over because a Padawan sliced him in half and he was believed dead. Had this not happened, how do you even ****ing know Maul would've even had the balls to oppose him directly? You don't.
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We do not know but we only know what did happen. Maul did oppose him. Maul did achieve factional power and authority through his own machinations and ingenuity.

Your insults are cute 😂

Can't believe you're actually implying that it's not easy to know if mental and emotional state have an impact on someone's abilities. It's obvious.
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I feel like I'm talking to a goddamn wall here. Listen. I'm talking strictly about Anakin's combative abilities when compared to Kenobi's. I couldn't care less about the whole baggage and shit. Was Vader's performance affected by his emotional and mental state, yes or no? It's an easy answer.

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If you answer yes, you're basically conceding because that was my point all along and you conveniently failed to see it.

Oh and yeah, I guess it's pretty easy for someone to just overcome all the tragedy, death and sadness going on in their lives and fight like nothing's happened. Kenobi's mentally tougher, sure. Kenobi's not the superior combatant. That was my point all along.
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Kenobi is the superior combatant against Vader as he proved. Facts matter. Your feelings or opinion don't undermine their confrontations.

The duel never even ended, lol.

😂

You know, when you attack someone with things like that, it goes a long way to show what type of guy you really are. [/B]

It shows you're thin skinned and weak like Anakin. You really do emulate lord Vader.

Quan still making a fool outta himself 😂

Quan is an evil Thanosi who must be crushed. 🙂

People salty because this messes with their power scaling 😛

Originally posted by Azronger
wonder why Vader didn't use all his powers on Ben;

but this was easily explained by the fact that

Ben was probably stronger than Vader.

maybe Ben was a six, Vader was a four,

-Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

It's all coming full circle.

Too bad Maul has already admitted his inferiority. 🙁

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Quan still making a fool outta himself 😂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Too bad Maul has already admitted his inferiority. 🙁

Well this thing Azronger doesn't even matter, so trying to weave this into anything is pointless.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well this thing Azronger doesn't even matter, so trying to weave this into anything is pointless.

I see a repeat of Resurrection coming up in the future. 🙂

You know what I'm gonna do next right.

Someone get me the quote regarding Luke which puts Ben > DE Sidious