Originally posted by h1a8
Im not throwing the high end argument at people. I'm just suggesting you be consistent. Cap clearly wasn't at his best. Thus the showing doesn't hold much evidence towards WS beating him in a h2h fight.
When Cap was at his best he clearly was superior to WS in h2h.
They were both at their best when Bucky left Cap at the bottom of an elevator shaft.
How can anyone look at this.
And then at this.
And say that the people in the second video are more skilled.
Originally posted by Nevan
How can anyone look at this.(Cap vs. WS vid)
And then at this.
(Batman vs. Bane vid)
And say that the people in the second video are more skilled.
You see the difference because are neither blind, biased or mentally challenged.
Almost every healthy clear thinking human can see people fighting in the first vid are superior in every way shape or form.
Originally posted by Nevan
How can anyone look at this.And then at this.
And say that the people in the second video are more skilled.
You are looking at visual speed.
Both Batman and Bane are masters in fighting. Batman can take out multiple thugs in seconds and so can Bane. Thus judging them solely on visual is faulty.
With your logic, I can say that any UFC fighter is more skilled and faster than both Cap and WS. But we all know that both would annihilate any UFC fighter in h2h fighting.
Originally posted by KingD19Cap was very far from his best. Look at WS and you see a totally different performance. Cap act like he couldn't even block basic kicks and attacks. In WS, WS was throwing far more combinations and techniques and Cap was shown more skilled.
They were both at their best when Bucky left Cap at the bottom of an elevator shaft.
Originally posted by h1a8Which is very valid evidence, considering movies are a visual medium.
You are looking at visual speed.
But anyway, I wasn't looking at their speed, but how they fight.
Originally posted by h1a8Post the feat.
Both Batman and Bane are masters in fighting. Batman can take out multiple thugs in seconds and so can Bane. Thus judging them solely on visual is faulty.
Originally posted by h1a8The choreographers took a lot from real martial arts so not necessarily.
With your logic, I can say that any UFC fighter is more skilled and faster than both Cap and WS. But we all know that both would annihilate any UFC fighter in h2h fighting.
Besides, normal humans can't run faster than cars.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are looking at visual speed.
Both Batman and Bane are masters in fighting. Batman can take out multiple thugs in seconds and so can Bane. Thus judging them solely on visual is faulty.With your logic, I can say that any UFC fighter is more skilled and faster than both Cap and WS. But we all know that both would annihilate any UFC fighter in h2h fighting.
Using implied speed, Enhanced human >>>> un-enhanced human. Thank you for admitting that WS is faster.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are looking at visual speed.
Both Batman and Bane are masters in fighting. Batman can take out multiple thugs in seconds and so can Bane. Thus judging them solely on visual is faulty.With your logic, I can say that any UFC fighter is more skilled and faster than both Cap and WS. But we all know that both would annihilate any UFC fighter in h2h fighting.
Look H1, you can use visual, implied or whatever other variant of speed you want, WS is still faster than Bane. He looks faster, he's stated as faster, he's implied faster, and he has feats demonstrating him to be faster.
Just give it up. No amount of twisting the word "speed" is going to make Bane faster than WS.
Originally posted by h1a8
Cap was very far from his best. Look at WS and you see a totally different performance. Cap act like he couldn't even block basic kicks and attacks. In WS, WS was throwing far more combinations and techniques and Cap was shown more skilled.
Prove it. Prove Cap wasn't at his best despite no evidence being shown of that "alternative fact" of yours.
Originally posted by h1a8
Im not throwing the high end argument at people. I'm just suggesting you be consistent.
LOL at you telling others to be consistent, when your standards fluctuate in almost every thread. And yes you are, as evidence by your very next statements.
Originally posted by h1a8
Cap clearly wasn't at his best. Thus the showing doesn't hold much evidence towards WS beating him in a h2h fight.
When Cap was at his best he clearly was superior to WS in h2h.
Trying to use one fight where Cap won (and with a ton of difficulty, as well as a distraction which gave him an opening) as a judgement of how they compare, while ignoring the other two showings where Cap did not win. In contrast, the rest of us are taking all three showings into consideration, which indicates that their skill and ability level is quite close to each other. So, you are the only one trying to compare them based on a high end showing for Cap from their fights.
Originally posted by Nevan
Which is very valid evidence, considering movies are a visual medium.But anyway, I wasn't looking at their speed, but how they fight.
Post the feat.
The choreographers took a lot from real martial arts so not necessarily.
Besides, normal humans can't run faster than cars.
It's not valid, otherwise real professional fighters would stomp these characters. Professional fighters are way faster than the average human (almost actors).
Post the feat where Batman koes multiple thugs in seconds? He did that in every movie.
How they fight is irrelevant to an extent too. Movies strive for flashiness, not actual effectiveness. In real life, some of those flashy moves have a very low percentage of even working.
Humans can run faster than cars if they are moving under 10mph or any speed under 20 mph. I already proven the speed of the cars. WS landed about 12 feet away from a car. It still managed to easily swerve away. The cars were very close to each other at multiple times (giving evidence to heavy traffic) and VISUALLY, in one scene you clearly see the car moving around 10mph in relation to a column. Remember, visual speed is valid, according to you.
Originally posted by h1a8
It's not valid, otherwise real professional fighters would stomp these characters. Professional fighters are way faster than the average human (almost actors).Post the feat where Batman koes multiple thugs in seconds? He did that in every movie.
How they fight is irrelevant to an extent too. Movies strive for flashiness, not actual effectiveness. In real life, some of those flashy moves have a very low percentage of even working.
Humans can run faster than cars if they are moving under 10mph or any speed under 20 mph. I already proven the speed of the cars. WS landed about 12 feet away from a car. It still managed to easily swerve away. The cars were very close to each other at multiple times (giving evidence to heavy traffic) and VISUALLY, in one scene you clearly see the car moving around 10mph in relation to a column. Remember, visual speed is valid, according to you.
You do realize that you're using visual speed to determine the speed of the cars, thus if visual speed is your standard. WS is faster than Bane and Baleman.
So, thank you for admitting that Baleman is a good bit slower than WS.
Originally posted by KingD19I gave proof. Please address it and not ignore it. That's how you debate. I'll give it again.
Prove it. Prove Cap wasn't at his best despite no evidence being shown of that "alternative fact" of yours.
In WS, WS threw many far more complicated combinations at Cap yet Cap easily blocked, dodged , and parried them easily without getting tagged. Look the knife battle. You are a proponent of visual speed. WS was moving a lot faster then than in the CW scene.
In CW, in that scene, WS threw a basic punch, front kick, etc and Cap act like he didn't know what to do. Huge difference.
Also, immediately after, normal humans (below Cap) were shown to easily dodge and strike WS.
Originally posted by Silent MasterEnhanced in what way? Strength yes, durability yes, speed yes ( but not necessarily above human limits), reflexes not necessarily at all.
Using implied speed, Enhanced human >>>> un-enhanced human. Thank you for admitting that WS is faster.
Anyway being faster (movement speed, not reflexes) doesn't prove anything since it takes less than half of the speed of an attack to defend against it (in many cases, less than 1/3).
Originally posted by Silent MasterI used more than visual speed. I gave other evidence.
You do realize that you're using visual speed to determine the speed of the cars, thus if visual speed is your standard. WS is faster than Bane and Baleman.So, thank you for admitting that Baleman is a good bit slower than WS.
But my primary objective was to destroy his claim that visual speed is valid. Remember he began saying that?
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerBut in a forum Cap fights at his best. Using any showing that's contrary to that isn't good evidence to how he will perform in a forum fight, according to you guys.
LOL at you telling others to be consistent, when your standards fluctuate in almost every thread. And yes you are, as evidence by your very next statements.Trying to use one fight where Cap won (and with a ton of difficulty, as well as a distraction which gave him an opening) as a judgement of how they compare, while ignoring the other two showings where Cap did not win. In contrast, the rest of us are taking all three showings into consideration, which indicates that their skill and ability level is quite close to each other. So, you are the only one trying to compare them based on a high end showing for Cap from their fights.
Originally posted by Silent Master
I must have missed it, What other evidence did you give for WS' speed?
WS jumped down and landed about 12 feet from a white car. The white car easily swerved out of the way of WS.
Then we have multiple scenes where the cars were shown very close behind other cars as in a traffic jam.
Originally posted by h1a8
WS jumped down and landed about 12 feet from a white car. The white car easily swerved out of the way of WS.Then we have multiple scenes where the cars were shown very close behind other cars as in a traffic jam.
That is visual, you said that you provided non-visual evidence. I'm asking for those examples.
Originally posted by h1a8
But in a forum Cap fights at his best. Using any showing that's contrary to that isn't good evidence to how he will perform in a forum fight, according to you guys.
And in a forum fight, by that same standard, so is Bucky. And, at peak, he has been at least a match for Steve more than once.