Regarding the "thousands of times", it's mainly in reference to this:
Years ago, Emperor Palpatine chose Byss as his private retreat, and Imperial architects and engineers were commissioned to build him an opulent palace. Several million humans were allowed to emigrate to the world, where the Emperor and his adepts used the dark side to feed off their life energies. The planet's population eventually reached almost 20 billion, and all outgoing communications were censored by security agents.
-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
So when Palpatine first began colonising Byss, there were only several million inhabitants. Palpatine started to leech off of them as early as a few months after RotS:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4221875-3643360187-19943.jpg
So RotS Palpatine's best mental domination and drain feat in terms of sheer numbers is in the millions. But as you read from the above quote, Byss' population eventually reached 20 billion, which is easily over a thousand times more than it was when Palpatine first began his domination and draining. And as we know, Palpatine never stopped, so he would've still been dominating and draining them as of RotJ.
The numbers and mathematics do not lie: Palpatine's mental domination and Force drain capabilities increased thousandfold in the years between RotS and RotJ.
Originally posted by Azronger
Regarding the "thousands of times", it's mainly in reference to this:Years ago, Emperor Palpatine chose Byss as his private retreat, and Imperial architects and engineers were commissioned to build him an opulent palace. Several million humans were allowed to emigrate to the world, where the Emperor and his adepts used the dark side to feed off their life energies. The planet's population eventually reached almost 20 billion, and all outgoing communications were censored by security agents.
-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
So when Palpatine first began colonising Byss, there were only several million inhabitants. Palpatine started to leech off of them as early as a few months after RotS:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4221875-3643360187-19943.jpg
So RotS Palpatine's best mental domination and drain feat in terms of sheer numbers is in the millions. But as you read from the above quote, Byss' population eventually reached 20 billion, which is easily over a thousand times more than it was when Palpatine first began his domination and draining. And as we know, Palpatine never stopped, so he would've still been dominating and draining them as of RotJ.
The numbers and mathematics do not lie: Palpatine's mental domination and Force drain capabilities increased thousandfold in the years between RotS and RotJ.
@Az That doesn't mean he improved a thousand-fold, unless just draining a few million pushed him to his limits, which is never indicated.
That's like saying Dooku as of AotC threw two small objects easily, but as of RotS he manipulated a hundred times larger object easily so he's obviously a hundred times more powerful.
Originally posted by MythLord
[B]@Az That doesn't mean he improved a thousand-fold, unless just draining the 20 million pushed him to his limits, which is never indicated.That's like saying Dooku as of AotC threw two small objects easily, but as of RotS he manipulated a hundred times larger object easily so he's obviously a hundred times more powerful. [/B]
Draining 20 billion never pushed Palpatine to his limits either. And where is the evidence that Palpatine even could drain 20 billion as early as RotS?
Originally posted by Azronger
Draining 20 billion never pushed Palpatine to his limits either.
Obviously, but that doesn't help your case, since Sidious' limits is then unclear.
Originally posted by Azronger
And where is the evidence that Palpatine even could drain 20 billion as early as RotS?
Nowhere. But that doesn't mean he can't, since suckling on millions absolutely required no effort on his part.
Re: Azronger's musings
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
For your enjoyment: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/sidious-vs-naga-sadow-freedon-nadd-revan-nihilus-v-1853336/#js-message-43This is really epic:
Finish your Vaylin thread.
Originally posted by AzrongerBecause it's a blatant appeal to ignorance, as Myth pointed out, you can't assume Palpatine couldn't drain a 20 billion pop as of RotS simply because he didn't.
How so?
Besides that? Over the course of decades of training under Plagueis his powers increased only "tenfold", so it's not only unproven, but as absurd as it sounds that Palpatine's powers would increase a thousand fold over his largely uneventful twenty-year rein as Emperor.
Myth, your Dooku example is quite terrible, because, as of AotC, we know Dooku can throw bigger objects than, for example, speeder bikes, from his feats prior to AotC, and his standing next to other powerful beings.
But what you are basically suggesting here is that Bob - who when he was a Padawan, could easily manipulate 10 ton objects - could manipulate 1000 ton objects as a Padawan, simply because he would go on to do so decades after his Padawan days, when he is a Jedi Master.
Sorry, but I need more evidence than "unclear limits" if I'm going to accept the notion that a certain character is capable of something.
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And Beni, it makes perfect sense, that Palpatine would grow thousandfold, if you are familiar with the effects of Force Drain, which is what Palpatine did non-stop for decades. His growth was not natural, like it was during his apprenticeship under Plagueis.
Originally posted by Azronger
Myth, your Dooku example is quite terrible, because, as of AotC, we know Dooku can throw bigger objects than, for example, speeder bikes, from his feats prior to AotC, and his standing next to other powerful beings.
And Sidious' standing next to his RotJ self, holistically speaking, shouldn't be equalling him being thousands of times inferior.
Originally posted by Azronger
But what you are basically suggesting here is that Bob - who when he was a Padawan, could easily manipulate 10 ton objects - could manipulate 1000 ton objects as a Padawan, simply because he would go on to do so decades after his Padawan days, when he is a Jedi Master.
No, that's what you're saying. For all we know, Bob could have grown a hundred fold from his padawan days to his Master days, but if he hasn't shown anything on that level via feats nor does his powerscaling quantify that: we cannot say for sure.
Much like that, we don't know if Sidious as of RotS has the ability to Drain 20 million people, or not. I think it's safe to assume he can, but regardless without knowing properly you're left with an appeal to ignorance.
Originally posted by Azronger
Sorry, but I need more evidence than "unclear limits" if I'm going to accept the notion that a certain character is capable of something.
But without a proper limit, you cannot assume he can grow a thousand-fold. That makes no fvucking.
Originally posted by Azronger
Myth, your Dooku example is quite terrible, because, as of AotC, we know Dooku can throw bigger objects than, for example, speeder bikes, from his feats prior to AotC, and his standing next to other powerful beings.But what you are basically suggesting here is that Bob - who when he was a Padawan, could easily manipulate 10 ton objects - could manipulate 1000 ton objects as a Padawan, simply because he would go on to do so decades after his Padawan days, when he is a Jedi Master.
Sorry, but I need more evidence than "unclear limits" if I'm going to accept the notion that a certain character is capable of something.
---
And Beni, it makes perfect sense, that Palpatine would grow thousandfold, if you are familiar with the effects of Force Drain, which is what Palpatine did non-stop for decades. His growth was not natural, like it was during his apprenticeship under Plagueis.
Next you'll be arguing Sidious>the Ones kek
Originally posted by AzrongerYou're shifting the burden of proof, it isn't us to provide evidence that Sidious can do this, rather you need to prove your claim that he can't. In which respect appealing to an absence of evidence isn't sufficient.
Myth, your Dooku example is quite terrible, because, as of AotC, we know Dooku can throw bigger objects than, for example, speeder bikes, from his feats prior to AotC, and his standing next to other powerful beings.But what you are basically suggesting here is that Bob - who when he was a Padawan, could easily manipulate 10 ton objects - could manipulate 1000 ton objects as a Padawan, simply because he would go on to do so decades after his Padawan days, when he is a Jedi Master.
Sorry, but I need more evidence than "unclear limits" if I'm going to accept the notion that a certain character is capable of something.
---
And Beni, it makes perfect sense, that Palpatine would grow thousandfold, if you are familiar with the effects of Force Drain, which is what Palpatine did non-stop for decades. His growth was not natural, like it was during his apprenticeship under Plagueis.
EDIT: Yeah Myth summed it up well.
And nah, there exists no precedent for any Force user growing a thousand fold, even if we accept that logic.
