Originally posted by Sin I AM
Did you just google that?You dont think
"Ironman
Hercules
Namor
Wonderman
She Hulk
Doc Samson
Photon " at their best can't beat Hulk (savage im assuming) in a forum battle?
Naah, I didn't Google it. You probably need to Google it since it's obvious you haven't read the comic. Anyways, they went all out against a dying Hulk and was still losing. So that should answer your question.
Originally posted by carver9
He fought a team that consisted of...Ironman
Hercules
Namor
Wonderman
She Hulk
Doc Samson
PhotonAnd the list goes on and on. Huge team and he was winning until he started to get weaker due to him dying.
Ironman - Low Herald
Hercules - Low Herald
Namor - High Meta
Wonderman - High Meta
She Hulk - High Meta
Doc Samson - not listed
Photon - not listed.
Oh my. That DEF compares to:
Diana - Mid Herald
MM - Mid Herald
Flash - Mid Herald
GL - High Herald
Stacking fodder doesn't create an amalgam that stacks stats on top of each other, lol.
Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I didn't Google it. You probably need to Google it since it's obvious you haven't read the comic. Anyways, they went all out against a dying Hulk and was still losing. So that should answer your question.
Hmmm...which Hulk are you talking about. I only remember one time where that particular group encountered Hulk i also dont remember Jen being there. Was this mindless? Savage? Educate me
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ironman - Low Herald
Hercules - Low Herald
Namor - High Meta
Wonderman - High Meta
She Hulk - High Meta
Doc Samson - not listed
Photon - not listed.Oh my. That DEF compares to:
Diana - Mid Herald
MM - Mid Herald
Flash - Mid Herald
GL - High HeraldStacking fodder doesn't create an amalgam that stacks stats on top of each other, lol.
thing about that line-up hulk fought was they were holding back the majority of the time--and hulk didn't really beat....anyone in the line-up. i can't recall if he actually ko'd...anyone in there tbh. maybe samson? and only a couple really pressed the fight, hercules being the major aggressor. namor was a feeb in that arc too so that showing for hulk is very much overrated. /shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
thing about that line-up hulk fought was they were holding back the majority of the time--and hulk didn't really beat....anyone in the line-up. i can't recall if he actually ko'd...anyone in there tbh. maybe samson? and only a couple really pressed the fight, hercules being the major aggressor. namor was a feeb in that arc too so that showing for hulk is very much overrated. /shrug
U have an issue number Leo? I really cant remember hulk fighting this particular squad
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Pretty much. I recently read a comic where Thor stated he couldvd killed Creel ages ago but always held back, then proceeded to bfr him. Not sure y this concept is so difficult to grasp
Well, part of the reason for stuff like THAT is that many such statements are retcons. At the time they were written, it was clear the original authors were having their guy use every resource at disposal.
For the few at the time that DID suggest they were holding back, it was often just barely.
Sometimes it was hyperbole.
Sometimes it was because the hero thought they could do more than they actually could and it was the villain who was choosing to hold back that prevented them from recognizing that fact.
It's also worth mentioning that portrayals of some characters are impressive enough at even 70% power when depicted by certain creative teams, that a reader won't feel like anything is being held back from them.
Then there's a final class.
World War Hulk versus X-Men is a good illustration in this regard.
WWH was a pretty high level engagement by the standards of yesteryear, or even today. The 2 sides are going quite hard there. Plenty of people being hurt or even crippled, bones broken, arms torn, people being booted out of state or beaten senseless. You could ALMOST believe the surprised thoughts of Magneto, seeing the X-men here, of a decade or 2 earlier. Mags in those early classic 1990s comics was actually surprised Wolverine was the one fighting him hardest and most arduously. Mags actually expected such fight-to-the-death mentality from SCott back then, not Logan.
A mystery, and rightly so. The X-Men are generally decent human beings. A fight has to push to the point where NO consideration for their opponent's well being can be afforded. X-Men versus Kuurth was one of the first examples I saw where the X-Men were TRULY ruthless. Under the direction of Scott, it's the only fight I've seen where strategy is employed without ANY concern for whether the X-Men's target survives or not. Scott in that arc made me look at that Magneto comment again. Cannot now recall where any comic where he was depicted as more coldly strategic, and I've been a reader for many years now.
It takes a clearly illustrated example like the Kuurth engagement for people to understand what not holding back actually looks like, though. Until you show people something like that, they'll never get it.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because there are always extenuating circumstances...someone on either side is always holding back. Place classic Hulk against a decent Avengers squad (not a bunch of streets and low metas) and hed lose. Same goes for Clark. He can't beat a non jobbing JLA.When heroes wreck teams someone is always mind controlled, not themselves, not trying to hurt their friends, holding back etc...ive never seen a fight where everyone on both sides is going all out.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Oh Byrne Hulk? Around the time Bruce/Betty got married. Got it. Thx
byrne started it but the relevant issues were by milgrom, some of the worst "professional" art i've ever seen.....
i do have the books and can maybe post some scans at some point. for most of the battle the heroes were holding back but a couple seemed to maybe be going all out. hulk did have a prolonged battle with samson, and at one point had simon on the ropes, but other then messing up tony's armor a coupe times, hulk really didn't do much. he didn't keep getting stronger though--he'd hit a limit, though the limit was high enough for him to engage a few cl100 guys at the same time. not sure that hulk would have beaten wwh tbh. would have made for an interesting fight.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Who asks for evidence AFTER making an opinion dependent on that evidence?
Cheerleading for the wrong team luv. If someone makes a reference why not back it up?
Originally posted by leonidas
byrne started it but the relevant issues were by milgrom, some of the worst "professional" art i've ever seen.....i do have the books and can maybe post some scans at some point. for most of the battle the heroes were holding back but a couple seemed to maybe be going all out. hulk did have a prolonged battle with samson, and at one point had simon on the ropes, but other then messing up tony's armor a coupe times, hulk really didn't do much. he didn't keep getting stronger though--he'd hit a limit, though the limit was high enough for him to engage a few cl100 guys at the same time. not sure that hulk would have beaten wwh tbh. would have made for an interesting fight.
I remember the byrne issues before he left the book. I just dont remember the milgrom ones. I also didnt remember photon being there or jen fighting. The whole set up was that Hulk was no longer holding back. Byrne even used the deer death at the beginning of the arc to showcase hulk was out to kill. Any other hulk wouldve just approached the deer, looked sad as it bolted and then leaped away. This hulk was a killer. Someone also said Hulk was growing weaker in that arc.. He wasnt. Correct me if im wrong but when Samson separated them Banner was the one that was on his death bed...hulk was fine.n