That was also seid who literally was fighting Superman and jimmy Olson that had the soulfire power just before his fight with Orion too
However the death scene clearly showed there is literally a connection and not merely just a prophecy. If it was just a prophecy as in foretold in the future and nothing more then how could he take a portion of the soulfire?
Originally posted by -K-M-He wasn't fresh I agree. But his powers aren't enhanced to kill Darkseid. In the scene Galan provided he could tap into the powers stolen but since they weren't being stolen both were at standard levels.
That was also seid who literally was fighting Superman and jimmy Olson that had the soulfire power just before his fight with Orion tooHowever the death scene clearly showed there is literally a connection and not merely just a prophecy. If it was just a prophecy as in foretold in the future and nothing more then how could he take a portion of the soulfire?
Orion doesn't have the kill code silver bullet as does Drax. That was described word for word but has never been described in such a manner for Orion and Darkseid's relationship. Apples to oranges.
In the scene I posted, Orion is able tap into the same celestial power source as Darkseid BECAUSE OF the father/son/prophecy dynamic that exists between them. It's stated right there on panel.
This is the same reason he was able to 'kill' Darkseid in Countdown. Again, it's stated right there on panel. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007There was no celestial power source in countdown. The amp was severed. He is powerful enough to kill Darkseid. Whether or not you believe he is formidable enough is another matter altogether.
In the scene I posted, Orion is able tap into the same celestial power source as Darkseid BECAUSE OF the father/son/prophecy dynamic that exists between them. It's stated right there on panel.This is the same reason he was able to 'kill' Darkseid in Countdown. Again, it's stated right there on panel. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
The father/son/prophecy dynamic between them is what allowed Orion to tap into the same power source as Darkseid, and equalize their powers:
http://i.imgur.com/D5xJzay.jpg
I don't think there was an all encompassing father/son dynamic "power" that is allowing for this to happen.
This goes the same for their fight in Countdown. It's a high end showing that belongs to Orion allowing him to exhibit power beyond regular portrayals. You said it yourself. He dismissed the JLA like they were weak feebs in the very same issue. Orion was simply operating at a higher level.
In both scenes the father/son/prophecy dynamic was explicitly stated to be in play. Not only did the Source Being itself describe that prophecy, but more importantly, he told us the reason *why* Orion was able to match Darkseid -- he can tap into the same energy source, and equalize their powers. This is only possible because of their inherent connection. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
In both scenes the father/son/prophecy dynamic was explicitly stated to be in play. Not only did the Source Being itself describe that prophecy, but more importantly, he told us the reason *why* Orion was able to match Darkseid -- he can tap into the same energy source, and equalize their powers. This is only possible because of their inherent connection. 👆
Btw during DotNG, it is pretty clear what the Source stated as to why O was able to share in the powers of the soul cache... That being he is the "scion" of DS and is very much like him in regards to their souls/spirit.
And again Orion dismissed the JLA as if he was operating on another level in Countdown. If you say only because of some "dynamic" was in play b/n them he is able to match DS, why did this dynamic spill over into his interactions with his teammates. There's no all encompassing prophecy that governs his relationship with them that I know of.
Originally posted by -K-M-
Always strong enough? You do realize they have fought many times before this right? Orion never looked this good
He looked pretty damned good in Simonson's run.
Less rip your heart out, and more martial arts refinement. IMO, it was a better fight then Supermans boring slugfest, and really showcased his fighting skills.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Not sure why there is any confusion..? My opinion is pretty straight forward, as it comes straight from the statements made in both scenes:
K. So that we're clear. What exactly in this father/son/prophecy dynamic you are stating causes Orion to match DS? When It's in play, are you saying that Orion's powers grow while Darkseid's diminish? Your description is a bit vague to me.
Not only did the Source Being itself describe that prophecy, but more importantly, he told us the reason *why* Orion was able to match Darkseid -- he can tap into the same energy source, and equalize their powers. This is only possible because of their inherent connection.
👆
Originally posted by cdtm
He looked pretty damned good in Simonson's run.Less rip your heart out, and more martial arts refinement. IMO, it was a better fight then Supermans boring slugfest, and really showcased his fighting skills.
That was also a fight darkseid intentially lost on purpose. When he was serious in the same run he was put down by DS fairly easily
It was a great fight. But not countdown level in power
Originally posted by -K-M-
That was also a fight darkseid intentially lost on purpose. When he was serious in the same run he was put down by DS fairly easilyIt was a great fight. But not countdown level in power
What about the fight where Orion jumped inside Darkseid's body and ripped him apart from the inside?
Originally posted by -K-M-Yeah, it is clear that Orion was operating on a completely different level in Countdown than we had ever seen before.
That was also a fight darkseid intentially lost on purpose. When he was serious in the same run he was put down by DS fairly easilyIt was a great fight. But not countdown level in power
Originally posted by Zack M
What about the fight where Orion jumped inside Darkseid's body and ripped him apart from the inside?
Different fight. But once again darkseid explains he did this on purpose, and that Orion had no chance really against him. He wasn’t sure if he would come back, but he was willing to risk it
1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv3_08-20.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv3_08-21.jpg
Originally posted by Zack M
What about the fight where Orion jumped inside Darkseid's body and ripped him apart from the inside?
Can't quote K-M, but I was going to add the fight was also inside The Source and they were doing strange things, both inside and effects through-out the universe, so even if Orion did it against Darkseid's will, difficult at best to say Orion could have done that outside The Source.
Originally posted by carver9😂
Well, with that said, Orion really doesn't have any fts that out him above Mid Herald. Hell, it's debatable if he is in this tier tbh.
The guy who consistently proves himself to be in Superman's tier...the guy who has, in fact, stalemated a sunamped Superman on one occasion...May not even be mid-herald.
Stay classy, carv. 👆
Originally posted by -K-M-
That was also a fight darkseid intentially lost on purpose. When he was serious in the same run he was put down by DS fairly easilyIt was a great fight. But not countdown level in power
I don't remember him being put down. As good an excuse as any to re-read that great run. 🙂
I will say I don't think it's in Darkseid's character to throw a match on purpose. He was really trying to kill Orion.. Everything in his history points to him as a darwinist, where strength is everything, and an Orion who can't hang with his best isn't fit to be his son, let alone fulfill a prophecy (Plus, why jump through hoops if he could simply kill him?)
He simply had an "plan within a plan" if he lost. Can't beat him down? Then mess with his head, weaken him, corrupt him, ect...
Originally posted by cdtm
I don't remember him being put down. As good an excuse as any to re-read that great run. 🙂I will say I don't think it's in Darkseid's character to throw a match on purpose. He was really trying to kill Orion.. Everything in his history points to him as a darwinist, where strength is everything, and an Orion who can't hang with his best isn't fit to be his son, let alone fulfill a prophecy (Plus, why jump through hoops if he could simply kill him?)
He simply had an "plan within a plan" if he lost. Can't beat him down? Then mess with his head, weaken him, corrupt him, ect...
No. I posted an example earlier where he explained he intentially lost in the source as a means to mess with the universe and corrupt the source. That was his primary objective. When he was serious he quickly put Orion down
In the fight you were refering to Orion used a shield to send darkseid omega blast back at Him and everyone assumed he died. However DS admits later he could have easily killed Orion (prior to gaining the ALE), but pretended to even die to further stain his soul so that Darksied and him could rule the universe. Orion had the anti-life equation at that time
1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion13kebbin15-1.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion014OCD-21.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion014OCD-22.jpg
4. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion15kebbin08.jpg
