Kenobi absolutely butchers him. The fact that Kao is being handed the win based on his performance against rookie Malgus and peasant Vindican is pathetic. Obi-Wan,pre-TPM, was capable of seriously pressing Qui-Gon in a sparring session, who as others have noted, has actually been stated as one of the most skilled Jedi in history. Qui-Gon was considerably superior to the likes of Anoon Bondara, who has been more than once stated as one of the best fighters in the Order in the combative Prime of the Jedi, and a fighter with few equals in the height of Jedi prowess and talent. Looking through Kao's respect thread, I see no such accolades on par with any of that, of even ones of comparable value. And whilst his resilience against very difficult odds in Return marks him out as a skilled Jedi Master, I'm not seeing it being remotely sufficient to give him the win over one of the best and most talented combatants in history.
Originally posted by ChocolateMuesliNot really. Qui-Gon's accolade is much better than Kao's, and Kenobi wasn't far off Jinn at all by the time of TPM. Even Anoon Bondara's accolade of being considered as one of the best duelists in the order is better than any of Kao's.
lmao what, kao wins this you're nuts if you think otherwise
Maul's in a different stratosphere from the Sith Kao fought, so I wouldn't say there is any reason Kenobi would be below him.
Originally posted by ILS
All battlemasters are equal? Battlemasters > everyone else in the order? What's your point?
[list]
mastered all forms
could hang with 2 admittedly mediocre Sith while wielding a single lightsaber and a double-bladed lightsaber simultaneously
[/list]
Kenobi hadn't even mastered Ataru yet. So obviously, Kao is far above him in raw lightsaber skill. And he's not a completely featless chump when it comes to Force powers, as he:
[list]
absorbed/deflected lightning on his lightsaber
used basic lightsaber throw
had some moderate to decent TK feats
[/list]
I don't believe Kenobi has anything to compare here either. If he does, post it. So far, Kao is quite a bit more skilled and more powerful. Not to mention that Jinn's own accolade(s) as one of the most skilled ever swordsmen, while impressive, would also go for Kao. All Battlemasters would go down as some of the most skilled Jedi in history. That said, I'm not sure if you're trolling tho?
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
To be knighted you have to master 2 lightsaber forms, considering Kenobi was a knight by the end of TPM I seriously doubt he didn't master Ataru. Nice try tho.
Originally posted by ChocolateMuesliGot you. We'll only use the evidence Jack likes, and we'll ignore the other stuff. Out of universe omniscient commentary is unreliable, but as we're about to see, using saber throw is of the utmost importance.
[B]Think logically instead of this lame quote vs. quote argument.
You really think newbie!KenobiThat newbie was, I repeat, nearly equal to one of the best swordsmen the Jedi have ever produced, in 25,000 years.
is above someone who:Yeah, pretty much. Mastering all forms lends a great deal of versatility, and is an edge, but fighting multiple opponents is par for the course for any Force user worth their salt.[list]
mastered all forms
could hang with 2 admittedly mediocre Sith while wielding a single lightsaber and a double-bladed lightsaber simultaneously
[/list]
Kenobi hadn't even mastered Ataru yet.Based on what? Also, if Zoltan's source checks out, your kind of ****ed here. Also, form mastery is only one aspect of what makes a good duelist. I'd point to Cade Skywalker who picks up a lightsaber with the training of a padawan, for the first time in 8 years, and has an even fight with a lightsaber master in the form of Darth Nihl, who has several decades of experience under his belt. Kenobi, even if he's not a Skywalker, is clearly prodigious, given the issues he gave Darth Maul and his close proximity to Qui-Gon, who is 60.
So obviously, Kao is far above him in raw lightsaber skill.In technical skill. That might matter if we weren't discussing people with super-powered physical stats and precognition.
And he's not a completely featless chump when it comes to Force powers, as he:Kao does have better Force showings. I personally doubt they're outside of Kenobi's capabilities, because of his proximity to Qui-Gon, however we have no confirmation one way or the other that Kao is better. We just haven't seen Kenobi attempt the same feats.[list]
absorbed/deflected lightning on his lightsaber
used basic lightsaber throw
had some moderate to decent TK feats
[/list]I don't believe Kenobi has anything to compare here either.
So far, Kao is quite a bit more skilled and more powerful. Not to mention that Jinn's own accolade(s) as one of the most skilled ever swordsmen, while impressive, would also go for Kao. All Battlemasters would go down as some of the most skilled Jedi in history. That said, I'm not sure if you're trolling tho?That's ridiculous reasoning. You could reason that any decent named duelist could be "one of the most skilled swordsman ever", if that merely makes them more skilled than 90% of Jedi duelists. However, 90% of Jedi duelists aren't even worth mentioning. The difference is, Qui-Gon was actually given the accolade, Kao wasn't. So while you, as a fan, can estimate Kao is one of the best ever, I'm actually citing an omniscient source to confirm Qui-Gon is.
Also, as for Kao taking on two opponents: he was still shafted by Malgus afterwards. So Malgus > Kao > Vindican.
In the same way, Xanatos took on Kenobi and Qui-Gon at the same time about a decade prior to TPM. However, one-to-one, Jinn proved he was Xanatos' superior. So Kao's best accomplishment is, essentially, being better than Vindican, among his other accolades, which compared to Jinn's, are paltry.
Originally posted by lazybones
Kenobi absolutely butchers him. The fact that Kao is being handed the win based on his performance against rookie Malgus and peasant Vindican is pathetic. Obi-Wan,pre-TPM, was capable of seriously pressing Qui-Gon in a sparring session, who as others have noted, has actually been stated as one of the most skilled Jedi in history. Qui-Gon was considerably superior to the likes of Anoon Bondara, who has been more than once stated as one of the best fighters in the Order in the combative Prime of the Jedi, and a fighter with few equals in the height of Jedi prowess and talent. Looking through Kao's respect thread, I see no such accolades on par with any of that, of even ones of comparable value. And whilst his resilience against very difficult odds in Return marks him out as a skilled Jedi Master, I'm not seeing it being remotely sufficient to give him the win over one of the best and most talented combatants in history.
I thought KOTOR was stated to be the prime of the Jedi Order