Originally posted by ChocolateMuesliYou're being deliberately retarded now. Better TK showings =/= better lightsaber ability. Better TK showings =/= better TK, seeing as Kenobi has no established upper limit. Better TK showings =/= winning a fight.
lol that was easy
ttyl, cut down on the straw mans next time
Originally posted by ILS
You're being deliberately retarded now. Better TK showings =/= better lightsaber ability. Better TK showings =/= better TK, seeing as Kenobi has no established upper limit. Better TK showings =/= winning a fight.
Jack's advice to ILS on the previous pagecut down on the straw mans next time
You clearly agree that Kao is more technically skilled and has better Force showings to his name, so he obviously wins. There's not much more to it than that.
Originally posted by ChocolateMuesliHe has better TK and technical skill. You could say the same about Qui-Gon Jinn, who Kenobi was pretty near equal to. Pretty near equal to Qui-Gon is not where I have Kao, ergo, Kenobi wins. It's not rocket science if you pay attention to what I'm saying. You haven't addressed any of my points.
I never said any of those things, bro. Here, I'll quote myself to make it easier for you. Let's hope you get it next time.You clearly agree that Kao is more technically skilled and has better Force showings to his name, so he obviously wins. There's not much more to it than that.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
The Jedi Path. Before you can become a padawan you must master Shii-Cho, before you can be knighted you must master another one or more styles. Zenwolf might have the quotes I can't be bothered to look for them.
Originally posted by ILS
He has better TK and technical skill. You could say the same about Qui-Gon Jinn, who Kenobi was pretty near equal to. Pretty near equal to Qui-Gon is not where I have Kao, ergo, Kenobi wins. It's not rocket science if you pay attention to what I'm saying. You haven't addressed any of my points.
We're not agreed he's more powerful, we're agreed he has better TK showings. As in, he was shown on screen throwing some moderately heavy ship parts, and we don't know if Obi-Wan can also do that. We do know that Kenobi shares close proximity to someone considerably better than Kao - Qui-Gon - hence why I think in a fight, Kenobi would win. If anyone is strawmanning, it's you.
Originally posted by ILS
We're not agreed he's more powerful, we're agreed he has better TK showings.
Originally posted by ILS
Kao does have better Force showings.
Originally posted by ILS
We do know that Kenobi shares close proximity to someone considerably better than Kao - Qui-Gon -
Originally posted by ILS
hence why I think in a fight, Kenobi would win.
Originally posted by ILS
we don't know ifObi-WanKao can also do that.
There's no huge difference between Jinn and Kao. If you think so because of a quote that Jinn has that Kao also qualifies for, you're out of your mind. This is prolly my last post on this subject btw.
Yeah, he has better TK showings. It doesn't strictly mean Kao is better as an overall Force wielder.
I can't find the quote, however, Jinn and Obi-Wan spar for an hour or so, both sweating heavily by the end, and it's stated while Obi-Wan isn't Jinn's equal yet, he did enough to "state his case" - this was many years before TPM. By the time of TPM Obi-Wan is faster than Jinn and has spent years improving since the spar. And I believe there are quotes from TPM saying Obi-Wan's not far behind him.
You never addressed my point about Kao not having equal accolades. Again, you as a fan can infer Kao is deserving of the same accolade, but the fact is, he doesn't have it. It's rare that a character is given praise to the extent they're noted as "among the best in history" by an omniscient source, and Kao doesn't have it.
Good, I'm glad it's your last post: your autism is beginning to rub off on me. I've had to repeat myself like 6 times already.
Not sure why such a big deal is being made about Kao mastering most/all the lightsaber forms, as if that puts him on Jinn's level or even necessarily close. Even worthless serfs like Master Kavar and Zez-Kai Ell ("who?" - exactly) mastered most/all of the forms. Yet obviously, Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan would trash those clowns in lightsaber combat.
In this fight, Kao may indeed have the advantage in technical knowledge with a blade. However, this wouldn't be decisive at all. Because as has been mentioned, Obi-Wan fought Qui-Gon Jinn to exhaustion many years pre-TPM (Jedi Apprentice:The Threat Within), despite Qui-Gon Jinn having considerably greater technical knowledge with a saber. For (pre-)TPM Kenobi, his technical knowledge doesn't seem all that big of a handicap at all. At just 13 years of age, Kenobi was capable of making Xanatos (said to have "mastery unsurpassed in his class" and was more than a decade older than Kenobi) lose his balance through his "ferocity" and "gracefulness". There are also plenty of examples of high potential characters defeating/matching opponents who have far more experience and knowledge of the lightsaber forms and techniques. Kenobi did it with Maul in TPM, albeit with a rage boost. I certainly don't see Kao pulling off the same thing, as he got overwhelmed by even Return Malgus eventually, who is a gnat to TPM Maul.
Originally posted by nfactor1995According to the KOTORCG, yeah. But KotOR=/=SWTOR. There's 300 years of peace between them. And IMO, PT has a stronger competing claim, as it seems to have significantly better high tier duelists, so I'd put that over KotOR. GL also notes that PT is the Golden Age of Jedi as well, I believe.
I thought KOTOR was stated to be the prime of the Jedi Order
Now, I suppose the average run of the mill Jedi in the KotOR era might be better, because they're literally fighting constant war, but the constant warfare would also logically have the effect of killing many potential high tier characters before they have the time to really grow. And a comparison of the best duelists in the KotOR and PT eras also comes out with only one winner.
Originally posted by lazybonesNow, I suppose the average run of the mill Jedi in the KotOR era might be better
I'd even say no to this here frankly, as there are quotes I believe in Y: DR(?) where it says the Jedi Order is the most powerful it's ever been and that the Jedi had improved themselves or was in the ROTS novel? Might have been both.
But for Jedi, just being in a war doesn't really mean that later incarnations are any less capable. Especially since they have been training to fight the Sith again in the exact same scenario as they did before...believe that was the ROTS novel.
IIRC, Kotor was never stated to be the prime in the context of how individually powerful force users were.
The only quote in the actual context of "power" was in relation to how much power the institution of the Jedi Order exerted as it was more actively involved in galactic conflicts.
The other quote only applied to eras that predated Kotor.
Originally posted by SunRazer
KotOR referred to the Jedi being in their prime with respect to the number of skilled warriors running around. Lucas' word on the PT being the prime of the Jedi (and I believe there are other quotes) make it clear they're referring to the PT era constituting the peak of Jedi skill.