Originally posted by beatboks
Yeah but Phil isnt referring to reboot. Not woth coments like "Aquaman is only now getting reapect". Based on this i saw his comments clearly referingnro pre flashpoint Arthur.
You'd be wrong, I'm talking about Post-Flashpoint Arthur - thus the examples I used in this thread.
The respect part is referring to the new version (Post-Flashpoint) being written well, and posters like EcstaticGrace only serving to turn people off the character, like carver does with Gladiator/Hulk or fangirl did with Wonder Woman, effectively not getting the consideration he would get if there were otherwise reasonable posters presenting valid cases.
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Yeah there have been some comments like that. It happens a lot in AQ threads(or is just more noticeable).I myself used a preboot scan (of his TP) Recently, in a different thread, but i labelled it as such, as my point was he'd only gotten more powerful since then.
I don't agree that he has. It's just that now he's recognized as being as powerful as he is.
I mean seriously Arthur was strong enough to hold up multi story buildings pre reboot
http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4759302-aquacover01.jpg
http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4759301-2998452-aquamanstrengthfeat2.jpg
Or the sub diego city block feat
http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/2282676-aquaman_strength_1.jpg
Fast enough to outmove a torpedo, dodge lightning, and energy blasts
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/2282666-aquaman_dodges_energy_beam.jpg
http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/2282663-adventure450_16.jpg
Had the durability to take a full on blow from Wonder woman and keep on trucking and survive depths no other could
http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/2065317-aquaman_v_jla_2.jpg
http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4759307-aquamangoesforaswim015ic.jpg
Could mind rape casually
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/5706883-aquaman+tp.jpg
http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/5706884-aquaman+tp+2.jpg
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4759313-tp+vixen.jpg
Not to mention courtesy of TP could sense attacks ahead of time
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/2065987-aquaman_under_aim.jpg
His strength feats of old were a match for those in Nu52, they just weren't as often or consistent. But he had greater versatility pre reboot.
Thinking on it he should JUST squeeze out a slight majority here. IF he uses everything he has to the best he can (talking pre reboot )
Originally posted by beatboks
His strength feats of old were a match for those in Nu52, they just weren't as often or consistent.
That's the key though: Consistency. It's how characters get treated with more respect even by casual readers, and those feats aren't just treated as one-offs.
Originally posted by Philosophía
You'd be wrong, I'm talking about Post-Flashpoint Arthur - thus the examples I used in this thread.The respect part is referring to the new version (Post-Flashpoint) being written well, and posters like EcstaticGrace only serving to turn people off the character, like carver does with Gladiator/Hulk or fangirl did with Wonder Woman, effectively not getting the consideration he would get if there were otherwise reasonable posters presenting valid cases.
That's taking it a bit far, dude.
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's taking it a bit far, dude.
We've both been on this forum a long time, and a character was never served well by having extreme opinions on him brought on by fanboys. Hulk literally can't get a victory on the forum, unless he's up against the Thing. Gladiator is a joke. The Superman brigade, funnily enough, had to work a lot to get Wonder Woman's reputation, after Nvr and the lot ruined it for years. The only reason Thanos still gets a good reputation on the foru is because many posters liked him beforehand, despite quan - Arthur doesn't get that luxury.
What Aquaman needs right now is to reasonably argue his abilities and fighting showings, while not going full 'high-showings are where it's at' fanboy. Yes, he has gone in punch-outs with Wonder Woman. At the same time, he gets into extended fights with Black Panther-lite Black Manta. Yes, he can take attacks from Hercules. At the same time, bullets hurt him, and he's been stabbed by spears. etc.
We can have a reasonable baseline for him, like:
1). His strength is a 8-9 out of Wonder Woman's 10.
2). His blunt durability is roughly the same 8-9.
3). His speed is questionable out of the water, in terms of actual hand to hand.
etc.
We can't have forum fights where it 'He's Wonder Woman level, he obviously wins!". "But how can you ignore his strength?!". "He obviously can tank everything they dish out, how can they even win?!". Details matter.
The "I can't find a single way the team wins" is a definite red flag, and I'm sure you agree with me on this [but you have to be impartial]. I repeat, we have a match where it's Spiderman, Carnage, Venom, Electro and more against Aquaman and a poster says that he can't find a single way to give the team the win. That's not reasonable, and it will put people on the opposite side, without even taking him seriously.
That's just my opinion - but I don't think you want to let this playout the way it's started.
Lol using Manta as an argument isn't respectable, by the same logic we could bring up characters for several powerhouses that have struggled with street.
Respectful is bringing up context if your going to use low showings as an excuse, which you only focused on lows.
Context is Aquaman generally holds back against Manta. Under consistent writers. The moment he decides to end the fight it gets one sided really fast.
That's not fanboying or high balling that's understanding what your talking about.
Also in regards to the "Aquaman's an 8 out of WW's 10"
In regards to strength he's broken free from her holds.durability
In regards to durability Croc hurt himself biting Aquaman's teeth which were strong enough to break Katana's sword which broke Wonder Woman's sword. Under Johns.
In regards to speed he rushed Wonder Woman under Johns.
Nothing like fighting in an insanely miniscule amount of time, but then again Diana hasn't done that in the New52 either.
Let's look at consistency though.
Johns had Aquaman fighting Wonder Woman on equal footing for the entirety of Flashpoint
Parker had Aquaman break free from her grip
Abnett made the statement that Aquaman was on Diana's power class
That's 3 writers. I'd call that consistency.
Manta has given Flash trouble. Taken speed hit/s from Mazahs. Among other things he's not above street but using him as a bar is faulty when Aquaman has Rogues way above him, and he holds back against Manta.
If I think Aquaman loses a match I say it. I don't come into a thread announcing him the victor because he's my favorite character. He typically is put against characters he's above and I assumed that was the case here. Which it is on a physical standpoint. If they can harm him internally they got the match
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Also in regards to the "Aquaman's an 8 out of WW's 10"In regards to strength he's broken free from her holds.durability
In regards to durability Croc hurt himself biting Aquaman's teeth which were strong enough to break Katana's sword which broke Wonder Woman's sword. Under Johns.
In regards to speed he rushed Wonder Woman under Johns.Nothing like fighting in an insanely miniscule amount of time, but then again Diana hasn't done that in the New52 either.
Let's look at consistency though.
Johns had Aquaman fighting Wonder Woman on equal footing for the entirety of Flashpoint
Parker had Aquaman break free from her grip
Abnett made the statement that Aquaman was on Diana's power classThat's 3 writers. I'd call that consistency.
Manta has given Flash trouble. Taken speed hit/s from Mazahs. Among other things he's not above street but using him as a bar is faulty when Aquaman has Rogues way above him, and he holds back against Manta.
If I think Aquaman loses a match I say it. I don't come into a thread announcing him the victor because he's my favorite character. He typically is put against characters he's above and I assumed that was the case here. Which it is on a physical standpoint. If they can harm him internally they got the match
They can also mess him up with mind control. Carnage has possessed the Silver Surfer, has possessed Ben Grimm, has possessed Captain America. Has city wide tendrils, has possessed entire towns full of people.
And that was before his upgrade.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They can also mess him up with mind control. Carnage has possessed the Silver Surfer, has possessed Ben Grimm, has possessed Captain America. Has city wide tendrils, has possessed entire towns full of people.And that was before his upgrade.
Anything like that can give them a win. I don't think Aquaman has shown resistance to possession.
I'm just saying the team doesn't take this in a physical fight.
Not sure why, butwhen I hit quote for phil it ends up an empty message box (which doesnt seem to happen for anyone else).
Fair enough re his last 2 posts. If he's talking only nu52 i dont see Arthur as versatile as pre 52. Yes he has amore consistent showing of strength that it definitely gets noticed.
I also agree on the 8-9 out of WW's10 in strength and blunt force durability (closer to the 8 though).
He also has a pretty good healing factor. No where near logan level (considering hlw he was told to take a break to let his body recover from all its damage) but it has been stated to be a few times that of a normal human.
And yeah a blanket statement that there is no way the team can pull a win is way off. Like I said I call it close to a split leaning toward Arthur (maybe 6/10) if we allow the pre flashpoint versatility and TP.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Anything like that can give them a win. I don't think Aquaman has shown resistance to possession.I'm just saying the team doesn't take this in a physical fight.
But the team he's facing isn't just made up of physical guys.
Rhino alone is a good distraction for a couple of seconds. With Doc's adamantium arms? Gobby's pumpkin bombs? The symbiotes, Spidey webbing him up, Electro and Lizard potentially messing with his brain? He'd be hard-pressed to win.
Unless of course, you reduce it to the average Hulk fight, where everyone suddenly just decides to go fisticuffs mano a mano style.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Anything like that can give them a win. I don't think Aquaman has shown resistance to possession.I'm just saying the team doesn't take this in a physical fight.
Haha, backtracking like a coward.
You've said:
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I see no one on the team harming him.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Most of the team are ineffective here, cause honestly whats Carnage and Venom suppose to do with Arthur?Who else is here can do anything even relevant here? Cause I'm honestly not seeing it. If Aquaman fights competently he takes it pretty fast. I honestly cant think of a scenario on how the team comes up with a win..
"I honestly cant think of a scenario on how the team comes up with a win"
"I meant purely physical!!!"
You're hilarious.
A few more pages, and you'll backtrack in Aquaman losing.
Reply to the Unquatoable warrior.
I said that because you were suggesting Black Manta was able to harm him.
I knew nothing about tendrils or the team having internal ways to harm him.
My response was on a external physical level.
I don't backtrack and if you want to discuss physicals or try to backup claims about fanboying and high balling yet your only mention is Manta when there's context there or Catman from a writer who doesn't frequent Aquaman. That's the definition of lowballing.
I even ask on how the team Takes it as a win, because I'm aware of who they fought on a physical sense. I didn't know anything about their "hax" more then likely because it doesn't come up often.
Ironic talking about fanboying and trying to suggest Venom vs Juggs... is somewhere Venom places at.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But the team he's facing isn't just made up of physical guys.Rhino alone is a good distraction for a couple of seconds. With Doc's adamantium arms? Gobby's pumpkin bombs? The symbiotes, Spidey webbing him up, Electro and Lizard potentially messing with his brain? He'd be hard-pressed to win.
Unless of course, you reduce it to the average Hulk fight, where everyone suddenly just decides to go fisticuffs mano a mano style.
Which if it's Mano a Mano style I don't see the team taking it. Even with pumpkin bombs, webbing anything physical on the external side.
Messing with his brain I could back.
